Jul 3, 2012 -- 2:06PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Ibn

you know this how? exactly?

I have already explained but you are not reading my posts.

Jul 3, 2012 -- 2:06PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Seriously dude, if you want to be taken seriously,you have to give up your belief in magic words.

I am sure you are taking me seriously even without reading my posts.

Jul 3, 2012 -- 2:06PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

And for your viewing pleasure, I give you,

Who Has a Right to Jerusalem ?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I9amcTg_6I&feat...

The man looks like overweight and over drinking idiot who doesn't even know that the holy land was not given to golden calf worshippers or any Jew who did not obey the Lord.

Jul 3, 2012 -- 8:26PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Ibn

Actually, he is the Imam of the largest Mosque in Italy and a leader of the Muslim community in Italy where he spends a great deal of his time speaking for and on behalf of the Italian Muslim community. And yes, he is fat. So was Pavoratti but he could still sing. Italian food is good.

He is not the imam but an ignorant imam. He does not have knowledge of both the Qur'an and the Jewish bible.

Aug 13, 2012 -- 8:52AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Quote:

"The land was given to people like Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob who were not Jews but Muslims. Some of their descendants began to call themselves Jews, and the land was never given to Jews but to Abraham and his descendants who were Muslims according to the Qur'an."

Ibn, please help me here.

Was Qur'an written about 600AD?

When did the term 'Muslim' come into usage?

Actually, in Arabic, the term is not Muslim but muslim. There is no capital letter in Arabic. The word "muslim" means someone who obeys the commandments. It is in this sense that the word muslim or Muslim should be understood. When God gave the land to Abraham or Isaac or Jacob, they were neither Jews (Yehudim) nor Christians but they were obeying all the commandments. It is in this sense that God has called us "muslims" because Abraham had regarded all those with him who were obeying the commandments from God as muslims.

There are verses in the Qur'an that make the above clear.

The claim that G-d gave the land to Jews is not true. The Jews with Moses at Sinai who did not obey all the commandments never got to the holy land because the holy land was only for those who were "obeying the commandments" ("muslims") out of the Israelites.

The current usage is not correct as it is assumed that there were no muslims or Muslims before Muhammad. The same goes for Islam (Submission). It cannot be the only religion ordained by God if it began only 1400 years ago. And God does declare that the only religion ordained by Him is the islam (obeying the commandments) It began with the first creation and the first command. In Arabic, it is called al-islam (the islam).   

Aug 13, 2012 -- 9:41PM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Muslim, the one who obeys the commandments.

Ok, but it is Arabic word/idea kind of imposed on to the rest of us who identify a muslim as one who follows Islamic faith. There are no muslim Chrstians or Buddhists.

 

Islamic faith IS also obeying the commandments by having faith in Allah/God/G-d.

Nobody of us is imposing idea of obeying God's Commands as every messenger of God had preached the same thing; obey God (keep the commandments). By obeying or keeping the commandments one becomes muslim (in Arabic language). Christians or Biddhists mean followers of Christ and followers of Buddha. Followers  of Islamic faith follow God/Allah's Commands rather than Muhammad's commands. Had they been following Muhammad's commands rather than Allah's Commands they would have been known as Muhammadans.

Dostojevsky,

It's a language problem.

The word "believer" in English is "momin" in Arabic. Plural of "momin" is "momineen". The early followers of prophet Muhammad were addressed as "momineen" bevause they had "believed" that revelation coming to prophet Muhammad was from Allah/God. They were called "muslims" only when they began to obey the commands from Allah/God.

Now take the same earlier process when Moses began to preach to the Israelites or when Jesus began to preach to the lost sheep of Israel, people began to "believe" first and then began to obey the Commands. They became "believers" first and then "nuslims" *in Arabic language) once they began to "obey" the Commands in the revelations. I don't know what is the equivalent of "muslim" (someone who obeys the Commands) in other languages.

Because non-Arabic speakers do not understand the real meanings of the word "muslim", they just assume that it must mean "Muhammadans", it isn't. Because they think that it means Muhammadans (followers of Muhammad) they are not going to let go of this definition of "muslims". Because they identify the term only with the followers of Muhammad, it became "Muslims" in English. Now regardless of what Muslims say, the non-muslims are going to fight tooth and nail to establish that they are not mistaken. Those of non-muslims who understand as the Muslims understand and they also obey the Commands from the Lord have no problem in regarding themselves "muslims".