A lot of "big claims".   Where is your evidence, considering you have never lived in the years that are being discussed?  Having no "objective" evidence of a person's existence doesn't mean that they didn't exist.  I bet there is little to no objective evidence of many of my ancestors, yet I am proof that they must have existed at one point.   I trust that the Bible itself is proof of Jesus' existence, also the fact that He has had many followers since the time of His being on earth.

Jan 31, 2012 -- 6:23AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Miraj, let's say only 'some'.

There are 'some' in every walk of life and in every religion.

My evangelical friend here does not think so. She is waiting for the "signs".

I also think religion in US is much more politicized than other countries.

Ameen to that.  And, yes, I meant SOME Evangelicals.

Jul 2, 2012 -- 3:27PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

 He claims that Q'uran itself says Allah gave the land to the Jewish people of Israel and it's part of the Q'uran's prophecy they were going to come back and get it back. They are the Indigenous people of that land.

He lies.

(1) The Qur'an does not say that Allah gave the land to the Jewish people.

(2) There is no prophecy in the Qur'an that Jewish people were going to come back and get it. Muslims are indigenous people of the land ever since Abraham called them Muslims. There were no Jews there at the time.

(3) The land was given to the people who submitted to Allah by obeying Him. Those children of Israel who did not submit were taken and punished by Pharaoh. When they were taken out by Moses, those who did not submit to G-d but to the golden calf were killed by their brothers because the holy land was given to the Muslims (those who submitted to G-d) only. Most of the rest did not submit during the next 40 years and they too died before getting to the holy land because the holy land was only for the Muslims. Even after that they forgot to submit and were taken captive to Babylon because the holy land was given to Muslims and not to those who did not keep the commandments. 

The land was given to people like Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob who were not Jews but Muslims. Some of their descendants began to call themselves Jews, and the land was never given to Jews but to Abraham and his descendants who were Muslims according to the Qur'an.

Jul 2, 2012 -- 9:14PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

1. Abraham, Issac and Jacob were and are Jews. They are the Patriarchs of the Jewish people.  They were not Muslims, Christians or Zoroastrians.

I disagree. The best Jews can claim is that Israel was their Patriarch because his children were called Bani Israel. Jews were never called Bani Abraham or Bani Isaac.

Jul 2, 2012 -- 9:14PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

2. Ishmael is not in the line of the Patriarchs. Muslims DO NOT descend from Abraham. Even if Arabs do (which they do not), by your own definition of Islam, Muslims do not descend.

Abraham was a Muslim, not a Jew. Ishmael was a Muslim, not a Jew. That is what I have stated. If you want to talk about linage you will have to include Abraham's idol worshipping father in Jewish linage. The golden calf worshippers from Bani Israel were following that patriarch's way.

Jul 2, 2012 -- 9:14PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

3. Read the Hebrew Bible. The lord, your G-d, gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people for all time. It is part of the covenant you are trying to hone in on. (It behooves you therefore, to actually know something of it)

The Lord gave the holy land to Abraham because he had obeyed his Lord's commands. Bani Israel (3000 of them) did not obey their Lord's commands and were ordered to be killed BEFORE reaching the holy land. Many of the rest of Bani Israel were prevented from reaching the holy land by the Lord before their death because they did not submit to their Lord like a Muslim should do. Only those who had submitted (were Muslims) to the Lord had reached the holy land.

Jul 2, 2012 -- 9:14PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

4. Muslims who are both honest and knowledgeable must agree if they actually wish to follow what is written in the Hebrew Bible and the Qur'an. (Obviously, you do not have to do either of those things. I sure do not care. Your opinion does not change a damn thing) 

I am honest and knowledgeable and I agree that the holy land was given to those who had submitted to the Lord (were Muslims). The rest were prevented by the Lord from reaching the holy land. If the land had been given to the Bani Israel because of the only fact that they were Bani Israel then it would had been given to ALL of those Bani Israel who had come from Egypt. Your Hebrew bible proves my claim to be correct and you wrong. Your ALL IN claim is neither being honest nor knowledgeable. 

Jul 3, 2012 -- 9:06AM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Ibn

You are so funny.

It's so funny that so-called Jews were once called Bani Israel but never Bani Isaac or Bani Abraham. Very funny!