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Switch to Forum Live View Qur'an says Allah gave Israel to the Jews
3 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2012 - 3:09PM #211
Patricklongworth
Posts: 213

A lot of "big claims".   Where is your evidence, considering you have never lived in the years that are being discussed?  Having no "objective" evidence of a person's existence doesn't mean that they didn't exist.  I bet there is little to no objective evidence of many of my ancestors, yet I am proof that they must have existed at one point.   I trust that the Bible itself is proof of Jesus' existence, also the fact that He has had many followers since the time of His being on earth.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2012 - 4:22PM #212
Ibn
Posts: 4,976

Feb 1, 2012 -- 3:03PM, browbeaten wrote:


Feb 1, 2012 -- 12:53PM, BDboy wrote:


Jan 31, 2012 -- 8:51AM, Ibn wrote:


Jan 30, 2012 -- 9:10PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Visio


Jesus, who most likely never existed, was no prophet. He was not even much of an original thinker or anything else. He is an irrelevency. 



How can someone be a prophet or not a prophet if he did not exist? Isn't it a silly remark?





>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can understand if one person find Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) "irrelevent". However attempting to say he never existed is HUGE LEAP!!


Guess if you can deny Palestinians ever existed, anything is possible. It's the same crown.


We had this discussion before, click here to read it.


 



Sometimes I am astounded at the historical stupidity on this board.  Palestinians/Palestine never existed during the time of Jesus (whether he existed or not).



I suppose the Palestinians did not exist at any time. They just dropped out of the blue yesterday.


Israel never existed during the time of Abraham. How could Abraham be a Jew and Israel had been given to him?

Moderated by Miraj on Feb 01, 2012 - 04:41PM
I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2012 - 4:40PM #213
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Jan 31, 2012 -- 6:23AM, Dostojevsky wrote:


Miraj, let's say only 'some'.


There are 'some' in every walk of life and in every religion.


My evangelical friend here does not think so. She is waiting for the "signs".


I also think religion in US is much more politicized than other countries.




Ameen to that.  And, yes, I meant SOME Evangelicals.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 3:27PM #214
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,277

I probably should not be re-introducing this topic. Let us all accept that no one's position has changed so that we need not re-hash what has gone before. I did want to provide some more information (in an easily accessible manner) which demonstrates that at least some Muslims read the Quran and conclude that Israel is the land G-d gave to the Jews. You can agree with them or not.


The Muslim Circassian community of Israel speak of how proud they are to be Israeli and support Israel, especially the Imam, Sheikh Farok Zinadin. These true Muslims know their Q'uran well and know it was promised to the Jewish people by God.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vXD84Pv0I&feat...



Arabs for Israel - Muslims for Israel - Sheikh Abdul Hadi


Arab Sheikh of Syrian descent who is the Sheikh leader of Italy's Mosques comes to the Gush Katif Museum to speak against the Israeli governments actions for kicking Jews out of Gaza to give it to a people who don't have claim to that land spiritually and historically, the Palestinians. He claims that Q'uran itself says Allah gave the land to the Jewish people of Israel and it's part of the Q'uran's prophecy they were going to come back and get it back. They are the Indigenous people of that land.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzE6kjmEkCU


Arabs for Israel - Muslims for Israel - Dr.Tawfik Hamid


Former Terrorist of al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, Dr.Tawfik Hamid exposes the Palestinians and Hamas and strongly supports the state of Israel and gives his reasons why he does. This truthful, righteous and brave Arab Muslim has now stop being a Terrorist full of hate and stopped killing innocent people and has become himself known as a true Muslim Zionist who believes in real peace, not Islamic hatred. In this video he exposes the lies of the Arab Terrorist Organization because he has opened his eyes to the truth.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaTjH4pqkdI


there is more, if anyone would like to see it. 



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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 5:10PM #215
Ibn
Posts: 4,976

Jul 2, 2012 -- 3:27PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


 He claims that Q'uran itself says Allah gave the land to the Jewish people of Israel and it's part of the Q'uran's prophecy they were going to come back and get it back. They are the Indigenous people of that land.



He lies.


(1) The Qur'an does not say that Allah gave the land to the Jewish people.


(2) There is no prophecy in the Qur'an that Jewish people were going to come back and get it. Muslims are indigenous people of the land ever since Abraham called them Muslims. There were no Jews there at the time.


(3) The land was given to the people who submitted to Allah by obeying Him. Those children of Israel who did not submit were taken and punished by Pharaoh. When they were taken out by Moses, those who did not submit to G-d but to the golden calf were killed by their brothers because the holy land was given to the Muslims (those who submitted to G-d) only. Most of the rest did not submit during the next 40 years and they too died before getting to the holy land because the holy land was only for the Muslims. Even after that they forgot to submit and were taken captive to Babylon because the holy land was given to Muslims and not to those who did not keep the commandments. 


The land was given to people like Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob who were not Jews but Muslims. Some of their descendants began to call themselves Jews, and the land was never given to Jews but to Abraham and his descendants who were Muslims according to the Qur'an.

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 9:14PM #216
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,277

1. Abraham, Issac and Jacob were and are Jews. They are the Patriarchs of the Jewish people.  They were not Muslims, Christians or Zoroastrians.


2. Ishmael is not in the line of the Patriarchs. Muslims DO NOT descend from Abraham. Even if Arabs do (which they do not), by your own definition of Islam, Muslims do not descend.


3. Read the Hebrew Bible. The lord, your G-d, gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people for all time. It is part of the covenant you are trying to hone in on. (It behooves you therefore, to actually know something of it)


4. Muslims who are both honest and knowledgeable must agree if they actually wish to follow what is written in the Hebrew Bible and the Qur'an. (Obviously, you do not have to do either of those things. I sure do not care. Your opinion does not change a damn thing) 



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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 2:28AM #217
Ibn
Posts: 4,976

Jul 2, 2012 -- 9:14PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


1. Abraham, Issac and Jacob were and are Jews. They are the Patriarchs of the Jewish people.  They were not Muslims, Christians or Zoroastrians.


I disagree. The best Jews can claim is that Israel was their Patriarch because his children were called Bani Israel. Jews were never called Bani Abraham or Bani Isaac.


Jul 2, 2012 -- 9:14PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

2. Ishmael is not in the line of the Patriarchs. Muslims DO NOT descend from Abraham. Even if Arabs do (which they do not), by your own definition of Islam, Muslims do not descend.


Abraham was a Muslim, not a Jew. Ishmael was a Muslim, not a Jew. That is what I have stated. If you want to talk about linage you will have to include Abraham's idol worshipping father in Jewish linage. The golden calf worshippers from Bani Israel were following that patriarch's way.


Jul 2, 2012 -- 9:14PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

3. Read the Hebrew Bible. The lord, your G-d, gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people for all time. It is part of the covenant you are trying to hone in on. (It behooves you therefore, to actually know something of it)


The Lord gave the holy land to Abraham because he had obeyed his Lord's commands. Bani Israel (3000 of them) did not obey their Lord's commands and were ordered to be killed BEFORE reaching the holy land. Many of the rest of Bani Israel were prevented from reaching the holy land by the Lord before their death because they did not submit to their Lord like a Muslim should do. Only those who had submitted (were Muslims) to the Lord had reached the holy land.


Jul 2, 2012 -- 9:14PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

4. Muslims who are both honest and knowledgeable must agree if they actually wish to follow what is written in the Hebrew Bible and the Qur'an. (Obviously, you do not have to do either of those things. I sure do not care. Your opinion does not change a damn thing) 


I am honest and knowledgeable and I agree that the holy land was given to those who had submitted to the Lord (were Muslims). The rest were prevented by the Lord from reaching the holy land. If the land had been given to the Bani Israel because of the only fact that they were Bani Israel then it would had been given to ALL of those Bani Israel who had come from Egypt. Your Hebrew bible proves my claim to be correct and you wrong. Your ALL IN claim is neither being honest nor knowledgeable. 

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 9:06AM #218
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,277

Ibn


You are so funny.


You are still caught up in magic names.


You have still failed to read either the Quran or the Hebrew Bible.


Believe what you wish, facts do not change based on your beliefs.


 




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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 12:59PM #219
Ibn
Posts: 4,976

Jul 3, 2012 -- 9:06AM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Ibn


You are so funny.



It's so funny that so-called Jews were once called Bani Israel but never Bani Isaac or Bani Abraham. Very funny!

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 2:06PM #220
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,277

Ibn


you know this how? exactly?


Seriously dude, if you want to be taken seriously,you have to give up your belief in magic words.


And for your viewing pleasure, I give you,


Who Has a Right to Jerusalem ?


www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I9amcTg_6I&feat...


.


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