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Switch to Forum Live View Qur'an says Allah gave Israel to the Jews
2 years ago  ::  Aug 17, 2012 - 3:45PM #231
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 738

Aug 13, 2012 -- 9:41PM, Dostojevsky wrote:


Muslim, the one who obeys the commandments.


Ok, but it is Arabic word/idea kind of imposed on to the rest of us who identify a muslim as one who follows Islamic faith. There are no muslim Chrstians or Buddhists.


 




Is there are difference between the muslim and Muslim? 


What is the difference? 


Is there a difference between the words islam and Islam? 


What is the difference?  


If I understand Muslims or at least some Muslims like Ibn, Christians, and Jews and Sabeans and Zorastrians are muslim and their faith is islam because they are reffered to as "believers"in the Quran.   They are belivers in God and the scriputres-books-revelations that were given to them. 


Muslims-Islam are "believers"  who believe in the scripture-revelation that was given to Muhammad.  


Muslims are not Christians.   But they are christians?  


Well if "christian" means one who believes in the "messiah"  and Muslims believe that Jesus was a "messiah" then Muslims are christians.  


If Christians are both muslims and Christians.  Then Muslims are both christians and Muslims.


If Christians are those who follow the revelations given to  Jesus "Christ".  


Then Muslims are Mohammadians because the follow they follow the revelations given to Mohammad.  


As for wether or not the Quran says that Allah gave Isreal to the "Jews" I don't think this is "literally" true.  


 What the Quran does say is


017.104  YUSUFALI: And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell          securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings         came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.


PICKTHAL: And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in          the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall         bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.


SHAKIR: And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the          land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to          pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.  


It "literally" says Children of Israel-Israelites.    


It does not say whose land or what land that Allah is "giving to-promising".  


But if Israelite-Children of Israel means  


"


The Israelites (בני ישראל, Standard: Bnai Yisraʾel; Tiberian: Bnai Yiśrāʾēl; ISO 259-3: Bnai Yiśraʾel) were a Semitic Hebrew-speaking people of the Ancient Near East, who inhabited part of the Land of Canaan during the tribal and monarchic periods (15th to 6th centuries BCE), later evolving into Jews and Samaritans of the classic period, inhabiting Judea and Samaria respectively. In Modern Hebrew usage, an Israelite is, broadly speaking, a lay member of the Jewish ethnoreligious community, as opposed to the priestly orders of Kohanim and Levites."


What the Quran does not "literally" say is that Allah gave the Land of Canaan to either Jews or Muslims. Neither does the Quran literally specify "Palestine".   


The Hebrew-Jewish Bible does literally speciify the Land of Canaan


If I understand the Hebrew-Jewish Bible correctly "Palestine" was part of the the Land of Canaan.


So far as I know "Palestine"  is not specifically-literally named in the Quran.   


   


  


 


 


   




 

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 17, 2012 - 11:12PM #232
Ibn
Posts: 4,230

Aug 17, 2012 -- 1:44PM, JRoadrunner wrote:


Jul 4, 2012 -- 3:28AM, Ibn wrote:


Jul 3, 2012 -- 8:26PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Ibn


Actually, he is the Imam of the largest Mosque in Italy and a leader of the Muslim community in Italy where he spends a great deal of his time speaking for and on behalf of the Italian Muslim community. And yes, he is fat. So was Pavoratti but he could still sing. Italian food is good.



He is not the imam but an ignorant imam. He does not have knowledge of both the Qur'an and the Jewish bible.



The Quran doesn't have knowledge of the Jewish bible, and neither do you are any Imam. So it's a wash. 



Too late! It has already been claimed on this board that the Qur'an is copied from the Jewish bible. How can it have no knowledge of the Jewish bible if the Jewish people here have claimed that it includes copied material from the Jewish bible? 


You do not know much about the Qur'an nor do you know whether I am imam or not.

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2012 - 2:00PM #233
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 738

 


 


Jul 3, 2012 -- 8:26PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Ibn


Actually, he is the Imam of the largest Mosque in Italy and a leader of the Muslim community in Italy where he spends a great deal of his time speaking for and on behalf of the Italian Muslim community. And yes, he is fat. So was Pavoratti but he could still sing. Italian food is good.




 He is not the imam but an ignorant imam. He does not have knowledge of both the Qur'an and the Jewish bible.



The Quran doesn't have knowledge of the Jewish bible, and neither do you are any Imam. So it's a wash. 



  


 


 




Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:12PM, Ibn wrote:


 Too late! It has already been claimed on this board that the Qur'an is copied from the Jewish bible. How can it have no knowledge of the Jewish bible if the Jewish people here have claimed that it includes copied material from the Jewish bible? 



What I do KNOW is that the Jewish-Hebrew-Torah-Pslams-Tankah was written BEFORE the Islamic-Muslim-Arabic Quran.  


What I do KNOW is the there are stories in the Quran about people, places, and events that are DIFFERENT from the stories in the Tankah. 


What I do know is the muslims and Muslims believe that the stories about people, places and events are true.  


I believe that since the Tankah was "written" BEFORE the Quran, it is reasonable and plausible for muslims-Jews to "believe" that stories in the Quran were copied from the Tankah. 


 


 


 


 


Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:12PM, Ibn wrote:


You do not know much about the Qur'an nor do you know whether I am imam or not.




How much do you KNOW about the Tankah? 


Are you an Iman?   


 




 

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