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3 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 2:09PM #21
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Reza Aslan was a pursuing a degree in Biblical Studies at Harvard when he was persuaded during a discussion to reconsider his Muslim heritage.  Here is a link to the interview where he discusses the transitions in his life.


An excerpt: 


LWWe heard in the course of one of your interviews that you converted to Evangelical Christianity at one point in your life?


RA: Yes, when I was 15 years old…

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 7:47PM #22
NATAS
Posts: 880

Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:09PM, Miraj wrote:


Reza Aslan was a pursuing a degree in Biblical Studies at Harvard when he was persuaded during a discussion to reconsider his Muslim heritage.  Here is a link to the interview where he discusses the transitions in his life.


An excerpt: 


LWWe heard in the course of one of your interviews that you converted to Evangelical Christianity at one point in your life?


RA: Yes, when I was 15 years old…





Reza Aslan was living in the U.S. when he became a Muslim apostate.   His parents were wishy washy cultral-secular Muslims.   I will certainly concede that a Muslim living in the godless-secular west is in much less danger of betraying Islam. 


However if he had been living in a Muslim majority country like Iran he would have been in more danger.  


By the way nice to see you back from Egypt.  Did you have a nice time? 


How is "springtime" in Egypt?  


From what I hear the Muslim Brotherhood, which has abolutely nothing to do with Islam and is not Islamist is doing quite well in the elections. 

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 11:34PM #23
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Jan 4, 2012 -- 7:47PM, NATAS wrote:


Reza Aslan was living in the U.S. when he became a Muslim apostate.   His parents were wishy washy cultral-secular Muslims.   I will certainly concede that a Muslim living in the godless-secular west is in much less danger of betraying Islam. 


However if he had been living in a Muslim majority country like Iran he would have been in more danger.  


I was living in Lebanon when I became a Buddhist.  No one cared.


By the way nice to see you back from Egypt.  Did you have a nice time? 


How is "springtime" in Egypt?  


I haven't left yet, thx.  Hubby is there, I am here. 


From what I hear the Muslim Brotherhood, which has abolutely nothing to do with Islam and is not Islamist is doing quite well in the elections. 


They are doing well in Morocco, too.





Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2012 - 6:56PM #24
NATAS
Posts: 880

Jan 4, 2012 -- 11:34PM, Miraj wrote:


Reza Aslan was living in the U.S. when he became a Muslim apostate.   His parents were wishy washy cultral-secular Muslims.   I will certainly concede that a Muslim living in the godless-secular west is in much less danger of betraying Islam. 


However if he had been living in a Muslim majority country like Iran he would have been in more danger.  


I was living in Lebanon when I became a Buddhist.  No one cared.


By the way nice to see you back from Egypt.  Did you have a nice time? 


How is "springtime" in Egypt?  


I haven't left yet, thx.  Hubby is there, I am here. 


From what I hear the Muslim Brotherhood, which has abolutely nothing to do with Islam and is not Islamist is doing quite well in the elections. 


They are doing well in Morocco, too.





The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah  as the "sole reference point for ...ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state".


That sounds ISLAMIST to me.  


" It supported the Egyptian Revolution of 1952, but after an attempted assassination of Egypt's president it was once again banned and repressed ."


"The Brotherhood's credo was and is, "God is our objective; the Quran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of God is the highest of our aspirations.


That sounds ISLAMIST to me. 


"According to a spokesman, the MB believe in reform, democracy, freedom of assembly, press, etc."


But it doesn't believe in a separtation of Mosque and State.


"Its founder, Hassan Al-Banna, was influenced by Islamic reformers Muhammad Abduh and Rashid Rida. In the group's belief, the Quran and Sunnah constitute a perfect way of life and social and political organization that God has set out for man. Islamic governments must be based on this system and eventually unified in a Caliphate. The Muslim Brotherhood's goal, as stated by Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna was to reclaim Islam's manifest destiny, an empire, stretching from Spain to Indonesia.


That DOES sound ISLAMIST to me.  


" It preaches that Islam enjoins man to strive for social justice, the eradication of poverty and corruption, and political freedom to the extent allowed by the laws of Islam ."


That also sounds ISLAMIST to me.   


"On the issue of women and gender the Muslim Brotherhood interprets Islam conservatively. Its founder called for "a campaign against ostentation in dress and loose behavior", "segregation of male and female students", a separate curriculum for girls, and "the prohibition of dancing and other such pastimes..."


Does this sound Islamist to you? 


It is my understanding that this equivalent to Right Wing Christianity is doing well in a lot of Muslims Majority countries.   Frown


Moderated by Miraj on Jan 09, 2012 - 05:11AM
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2012 - 9:52AM #25
SherriMunnerlyn
Posts: 7,519

Jan 4, 2012 -- 7:47PM, NATAS wrote:


Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:09PM, Miraj wrote:


Reza Aslan was a pursuing a degree in Biblical Studies at Harvard when he was persuaded during a discussion to reconsider his Muslim heritage.  Here is a link to the interview where he discusses the transitions in his life.


An excerpt: 


LWWe heard in the course of one of your interviews that you converted to Evangelical Christianity at one point in your life?


RA: Yes, when I was 15 years old…





Reza Aslan was living in the U.S. when he became a Muslim apostate.   His parents were wishy washy cultral-secular Muslims.   I will certainly concede that a Muslim living in the godless-secular west is in much less danger of betraying Islam. 


However if he had been living in a Muslim majority country like Iran he would have been in more danger.  


By the way nice to see you back from Egypt.  Did you have a nice time? 


How is "springtime" in Egypt?  


From what I hear the Muslim Brotherhood, which has abolutely nothing to do with Islam and is not Islamist is doing quite well in the elections. 





NATAS,


You say the Muslim Brotherhood has nothing to do with Islam and is not Islamist. So, what are they? They paint themselves as a moderate group in Egypt, rejecting violence. That was before regime change there, anyway. I was reading this article not too long ago stating Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood were meeting and Hamas considering joining them. What in the world does that mean? I thought they arose from the Muslim Brotherhood to start with, or already had some association with them. It is so hard to figure out what the truth really is.


We killed another nuclear scientist in Iran today, Iranian radio was reporting, and we wonder why they hate us.


Sherri


 

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2012 - 11:33AM #26
world citizen
Posts: 5,505

Sherri ~


We killed another nuclear scientist in Iran today, Iranian radio was reporting, and we wonder why they hate us.


Who is "We"?  As a Baha'i, I'm acutely aware of how capable the Iranian government is of telling lies to suit its own purposes.  Your statement, offered as a given fact (although reputed by the U.S.) is a slap to your fellow Americans.  Apparently you aren't aware that Iran has also accused Israel of the deed -- sort of an either/or situation.  Personally, I doubt that either did it because I wouldn't trust anything Iran has to say.

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2012 - 1:17PM #27
BDboy
Posts: 5,659

Jan 11, 2012 -- 11:33AM, world citizen wrote:


Sherri ~


We killed another nuclear scientist in Iran today, Iranian radio was reporting, and we wonder why they hate us.


Who is "We"?  As a Baha'i, I'm acutely aware of how capable the Iranian government is of telling lies to suit its own purposes.  Your statement, offered as a given fact (although reputed by the U.S.) is a slap to your fellow Americans.  Apparently you aren't aware that Iran has also accused Israel of the deed -- sort of an either/or situation.  Personally, I doubt that either did it because I wouldn't trust anything Iran has to say.




>>>>>>>> Let me understand you here WC.


Are you telling us that, Iran would kill one of it's own scientists working in a "Priority project" just so they can blame US and Israel for it? And you are absolutely sure Israel has nothing to do with it?


I have seen Iranian President saying stupid things but I did not think he was this bad!!

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2012 - 6:04PM #28
world citizen
Posts: 5,505

Jan 11, 2012 -- 1:17PM, BDboy wrote:

Jan 11, 2012 -- 11:33AM, world citizen wrote:


Sherri ~


We killed another nuclear scientist in Iran today, Iranian radio was reporting, and we wonder why they hate us.


Who is "We"?  As a Baha'i, I'm acutely aware of how capable the Iranian government is of telling lies to suit its own purposes.  Your statement, offered as a given fact (although reputed by the U.S.) is a slap to your fellow Americans.  Apparently you aren't aware that Iran has also accused Israel of the deed -- sort of an either/or situation.  Personally, I doubt that either did it because I wouldn't trust anything Iran has to say.




>>>>>>>> Let me understand you here WC.


Are you telling us that, Iran would kill one of it's own scientists working in a "Priority project" just so they can blame US and Israel for it? And you are absolutely sure Israel has nothing to do with it?


I have seen Iranian President saying stupid things but I did not think he was this bad!!


No, BDboy, you don't understand what I meant because, unlike some others, I don't jump toward conclusions based on hearsay, especially if the accusation comes from Iran.  Until there is more evidence, I don't think anyone should go about saying (as if certain) that A, B or C was factually responsible.

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2012 - 11:19PM #29
LeahOne
Posts: 16,385

BD, a suggestion for you:  Read 'The True Believer' by Eric Hoffer.  It will explain just how something like that works.  The classic is the Reichstag fire....  That the Iranian 'inner circle' would sacrifice one of their nuclear scientists to invent a 'reason' to go after Israel is not so far-fetched.


Just because Hoffer wrote in the '50's and his examples involved Nazi Germany - his  work applies to many, many groups and 'movements'.....

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2012 - 11:29PM #30
NATAS
Posts: 880

 


 


Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:09PM, Miraj wrote:


Reza Aslan was a pursuing a degree in Biblical Studies at Harvard when he was persuaded during a discussion to reconsider his Muslim heritage.  Here is a link to the interview where he discusses the transitions in his life.


An excerpt: 


LWWe heard in the course of one of your interviews that you converted to Evangelical Christianity at one point in your life?


RA: Yes, when I was 15 years old…





Reza Aslan was living in the U.S. when he became a Muslim apostate.   His parents were wishy washy cultral-secular Muslims.   I will certainly concede that a Muslim living in the godless-secular west is in much less danger of betraying Islam. 


However if he had been living in a Muslim majority country like Iran he would have been in more danger.  


By the way nice to see you back from Egypt.  Did you have a nice time? 


How is "springtime" in Egypt?  


From what I hear the Muslim Brotherhood, which has abolutely nothing to do with Islam and is not Islamist is doing quite well in the elections. 




Jan 11, 2012 -- 9:52AM, SherriMunnerlyn wrote:



NATAS,


You say the Muslim Brotherhood has nothing to do with Islam and is not Islamist.



Sherri


I am saying the Muslim Brotherhood is not "Islamist" because I have been told by Muslims in this forum that the words "Islamist-Islamism" were made up by an ignorant western oreintailist to disparge Islam.   I have been told by Muslims in this forum that since the words "Islamism" is not in the Quran, then it has nothing to do with Islam.  


 


Jan 11, 2012 -- 9:52AM, SherriMunnerlyn wrote:


 


 So, what are they?


They paint themselves as a moderate group in Egypt, rejecting violence.



"Moderate" is a relative term.  I don't think that the MB has totally rejected violence.  I don't think they are pacifist or the equivelent of the Quakers, Martin Luther King or Ghandi.  


"Just Violence" in self-defense or in the defense of the innocent is not forbidden.  To commit violence or to kill an "innocent" is prohibited.   "Just Violence" against the "guilty" is meritorious. 


And if you lose your life in the cause of Allah, which is the defence of innocent Muslims then you are a shaeed a martyr. Now I don't know if you get 72 virgins, but you do get extra credit and rewards on judgemet day.  


I've been told that both the Muslim Brotherhood and HAMAS are politcal and social organizations that consider the Quran to be their Constitution and the Sharia their law.    I have been told that they are dedicated to helping the oppressed and poor Muslims in Zionist Occupied  Palestine and the rest of Dar al Islam. I have been told that they provide essential service like food, medicine and education to the poor and opressed Muslims. 


HAMAS provides defense from the facist Zionist apathied gov't of Israel. 


I have also been told that, the Zionist-Coporate-Capitialist controlled media  both the Muslim Brotherhood and HAMAS are "terrorist".   But I have my doubts.   


If either organization ever did commit violence or took the life of anyone then they were guilty and deserved.    They like Muhammad would never, ever commit violence or take the life of any innocent person. 


I heard on the Al Jeezra and Al Arabiya that the Muslim Brotherhood said they would not seek to rescind the peace treaty between Egypt and the......Zionist Entity. 


That sound "moderate" to me.  


 


 



 


 


 


 That was before regime change there, anyway. I was reading this article not too long ago stating Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood were meeting and Hamas considering joining them. What in the world does that mean? I thought they arose from the Muslim Brotherhood to start with, or already had some association with them. It is so hard to figure out what the truth really is.



 

Jan 11, 2012 -- 9:52AM, SherriMunnerlyn wrote:


We killed another nuclear scientist in Iran today, Iranian radio was reporting, and we wonder why they hate us.


Sherri


 




And lets not forget that "we" overthrew a demorcratically elected gov't and installed the puppet lackey and stooge of the oilarchy zionist the Shah of Iran. 


And then there is the finiancial, military and intelligence we provide to Sodom Hussien when he went to war with Iran. 


Not only that be  "we" sent another Iranian-American a former Marine to infilterate and spy on Iran.  Even after "they" released the four american spies who were allegedly "hiking" in Iran and "allegedl" got "lost".  


  No wonder "they" hate "us". 


P.S. I have also been told by Muslims in this forum that the Islamic Republic of Iran is not Islamic and that there are no "Islamic" countries on the planet. 
 

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