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Throwing baby Jesus out with the bath water?
5 months ago  ::  Dec 31, 2011 - 2:01PM #81
teilhard
Posts: 35,663

You seem to be "stuck" in a ("Fundamentalist" Literalist ... ???) Notion of "God" that I don't hold, i.e., "God" as THE Special Direct Creator of Everything about Everything ...


Instead, as I already posted, I Observe and Affirm The Bible Story Understandings that in Reality, there ARE genuine Contingency and Novelty going forward ... AND that Human Beings are not Automatons ...


Dec 31, 2011 -- 4:33AM, F1fan wrote:


I asked two questions:


If a god exists, why did it create these humans this way?  What is moral about creating humans without a capacity for living a responsible life?


And you answered neither.





Moderated by Jcarlinbn on Jan 02, 2012 - 11:00PM
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 12:03AM #82
Blü
Posts: 17,537

teilhard


Enough.


I'll leave you to yourself.

Moderated by Jcarlinbn on Jan 02, 2012 - 11:47AM
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 11:13PM #83
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 6,717

A series of posts demanding answers to avoided questions and responses have been deleted.  No notifications.  


Any response to a question is to be accepted as an answer to the question.  Evasive or non-responsive posts must be assumed to be intentional.  

Community Host.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 11:26PM #84
teilhard
Posts: 35,663

Enacting The Natural Human CAPACITY to behave decently and morally is of course ultimately dependant upon a LEARNED Skill, and some Human Beings have obviously more or less DIFFICULTY in that Learning ... but even a SocioPath is indeed able to learn to BEHAVE decently ...


Dec 30, 2011 -- 12:01PM, F1fan wrote:


But we see that all humans are not capable.  Some have mental illnesses and disorders that make them unable to discern morals.  If a god exists, why did it create these humans this way?  What is moral about creating humans without a capacity for living a responsible life?


Dec 30, 2011 -- 12:13AM, teilhard wrote:


My Experience of Human Beings indicates to me that ALL Human Beings are capable of Morality and Decency ...







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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2012 - 11:03AM #85
F1fan
Posts: 7,350

Jan 2, 2012 -- 11:26PM, teilhard wrote:


Enacting The Natural Human CAPACITY to behave decently and morally is of course ultimately dependant upon a LEARNED Skill, and some Human Beings have obviously more or less DIFFICULTY in that Learning ... but even a SocioPath is indeed able to learn to BEHAVE decently ...



Only if they understand that they will suffer consequences for that behavior, not because there's an advantage to cooperation.  But look at bipolar disorder.  I've had a old friend working for me for over two years and has been doing pretty well in that time despite a problem with binge drinking.  We were on a job this past fall and his behavior changed.  He was angry, acting out violently, not able to focus on work, and as a result freaked out a girl working for me so badly that she quit.  The home owner asked he not come back, so I had to fire him.  He then was kicked out of the friend's house he was living in and ended up homeless, staying in an all night grocery store till 6 am.  He ended up getting arrested and is now in a mental health facility.  I've talked to him and he thinks his moma nd brother tried to poison him to explain his behavior.  He thinks he's inheriting a million dollars from his dad, who died in poverty.  Despite being medicated now for over a month he has no idea how his behavior looks to others.


This falls into the same category as genetic defects in new borns.  The human species has no biological advantage over other animals, which leads me to conclude we are not special creatures as claimed in some religious beliefs.  Humans behavior is still marked by very primitive behaviors that are seen in the wild, such as power struggle with an aversion to equality.  We see this with conservatives, usually masked as people being financially autonomous in a society that is prejudicial.  So I don't see the role of "belief in a god" as being terribly helpful in morality.  I don't see any sort of advantage theists have as believers.  I see nothing that suggests humans have a "moral seed" of god that makes them moral.

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 03, 2012 - 12:40PM #86
teilhard
Posts: 35,663

Indeed ALL Human Beings ARE quite "Human," i.e., we ARE Primate Mammals, Creatures, (NOT "gods" in our own Right) and we DO learn Cooperation (or not) ... Some of us are more Cooperative than others, some less ...


But ... as per the Discoveries and Ideas of (the Late) Lynn Margulis, in Fact, The ESSENCE of "Life" IS "Cooperation," Symbiosis, Incorporation, Relationship ...

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