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Switch to Forum Live View Does the Baha'i faith
3 years ago  ::  Nov 28, 2011 - 3:39PM #1
wohali
Posts: 10,227
Fully accept gay people as members?
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 28, 2011 - 4:07PM #2
Aka_me
Posts: 12,325

Nov 28, 2011 -- 3:39PM, wohali wrote:

Fully accept gay people as members?



there is more than one question here...


can a gay person join the Baha'i Faith? yes.


are members of the Baha'i Faith perfect in how they accept gay members? no.


should celebate gay Baha'i members expect any problem in the community because of their being gay? no.


should gay members expect to openly cohabitate, as breaking the intent of the Baha'i guidance?


that's where we could have a meaningful discussion.


 


the law preventing homosexual activity... is identical to the law preventing consumption of alcohol, and I've had a Baha'i friend insist on remaining homeless and drinking alcohol. there were no consequence to being a Baha'i. it was only after he began teaching the Baha'i Faith in bars while intoxicated did the only possible consequence of "loss of voting rights" take place.


I have not known any openly cohabitating gay Baha'i to see if they had any repercussions.

happy will be the day that my tax dollars are not killing innocent women and children in war crimes and crimes against humanity as we shove our head up each other's WhoHa thinking our ends justifies our means while demonizing the enemy for doing the same, when it is we who are the original terrorists. and have an active role creating today's turmoil.
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 28, 2011 - 4:38PM #3
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Thanks Aka_me.


It was one question, you simply chose to give multiple answers, which is fine.

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2011 - 6:28AM #4
Lilwabbit
Posts: 2,907

Nov 28, 2011 -- 3:39PM, wohali wrote:

Fully accept gay people as members?



Yes. But we do not define marriage individualistically as a personal right to a life-partner for heterosexuals, and hence neither for homosexuals. Our sexual morality is conservative in the sense that pre-marital and extra-marital affairs are advised against, whether gay or hetero. Likewise, marriage is not understood, whether for hetero or for gay, as a personal right to a life-partner but primarily an educational responsibility which enables the child to benefit from the biological diversity and complementarity of the mother and the father. This view "discriminates" (if one wishes to level the accusation) both co-habiting heterosexuals and homosexuals, and is, therefore, equal in its strictness. This is also in keeping with the Bahá'í principle of "unity in diversity". More debate on the subject is available on this thread. Feel free to contribute.


With kind regards,


LilWabbit

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2011 - 7:49AM #5
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

^So all that talk about traveling for work was just to brag lol?



So gays is one of the things Bahai has in common with LDS then.  Basically, LDS says being gay is a disease, or a psychosis-like a drug addiction.  And thus "practicing gay" is the problem.  Is it the same for Baha?  


Who else  (what other groups) does Bahai discriminate against?  Why?
 

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2011 - 11:15AM #6
Aka_me
Posts: 12,325

there's a page which describes the matter rather well here.


members of the Baha'i Faith are not perfect. undoubtedly somewhere members have projected the wrong attitude toward gay people. one sentence bears repeating:


Bahá'ís are left to apply the teachings at their own discretion, and are discouraged from singling out homosexuality over other transgressions, such as the consumption of alcohol, or heterosexual promiscuity.


BOTH sexual promiscuity, and sex outside marriage, are not condoned in ANY religion.


the difference between the Baha'i view and the LDS view... is that Baha'i make no attempt at legislating morality upon unbelievers. if the government chooses to allow same sex marriage, then Baha'i have no opinion on the matter, which would in no way affect or change the Baha'i position for believers.

happy will be the day that my tax dollars are not killing innocent women and children in war crimes and crimes against humanity as we shove our head up each other's WhoHa thinking our ends justifies our means while demonizing the enemy for doing the same, when it is we who are the original terrorists. and have an active role creating today's turmoil.
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2011 - 11:44AM #7
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

Nov 29, 2011 -- 11:15AM, Aka_me wrote:


members of the Baha'i Faith are not perfect. undoubtedly somewhere members have projected the wrong attitude toward gay people. one sentence bears repeating:


Bahá'ís are left to apply the teachings at their own discretion, and are discouraged from singling out homosexuality over other transgressions, such as the consumption of alcohol, or heterosexual promiscuity.


BOTH sexual promiscuity, and sex outside marriage, are not condoned in ANY religion.


the difference between the Baha'i view and the LDS view... is that Baha'i make no attempt at legislating morality upon unbelievers. if the government chooses to allow same sex marriage, then Baha'i have no opinion on the matter, which would in no way affect or change the Baha'i position for believers.




Well AKA, I question Bahai's ability to influence legislation.  Lack of ability does not deserve note as "restraint"-not until you have the ability.  So I'll ignore that claim and assume it foundless at this point.  You don't have the political clout mormons do in the US-so you simply cannot say it. 


And you are wrong-why make a sweeping statement about all religions.  My belief has no rules against being gay, being promiscuous, premarital sex, etc.  That's just one, so clearly your statement there is wishful thinking, not truth.  Not all religions or philosophies have a long set of rules-some of them are about creating peace, not legislating morality on their people.


And you didn't really answer my question-but I do respect that you are not proud of your religion's discrimination practices.

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2011 - 11:51AM #8
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

Also, 


It appears that some versions of Bahai disagree with you and actually seek theocracy-why the dishonesty?


"It is very unlikely that the Haifa-based Baha'i Faith organization will ever grow large enough to begin pushing for the kind of sweeping political power that it desires, so non-Baha'is need not worry. But regardless of practical realities, the fundamentalist Baha'i theory of future theocratic governance is a bad idea."


www.bahai-faith.com/

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2011 - 1:01PM #9
Aka_me
Posts: 12,325

Nov 29, 2011 -- 7:49AM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


^So all that talk about traveling for work was just to brag lol?



So gays is one of the things Bahai has in common with LDS then.  Basically, LDS says being gay is a disease, or a psychosis-like a drug addiction.  And thus "practicing gay" is the problem.  Is it the same for Baha?  


Who else  (what other groups) does Bahai discriminate against?  Why?



so much for reading a pamphlet first eh?

happy will be the day that my tax dollars are not killing innocent women and children in war crimes and crimes against humanity as we shove our head up each other's WhoHa thinking our ends justifies our means while demonizing the enemy for doing the same, when it is we who are the original terrorists. and have an active role creating today's turmoil.
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2011 - 1:03PM #10
Aka_me
Posts: 12,325

Nov 29, 2011 -- 11:51AM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:


Also, 


It appears that some versions of Bahai disagree with you and actually seek theocracy-why the dishonesty?


"It is very unlikely that the Haifa-based Baha'i Faith organization will ever grow large enough to begin pushing for the kind of sweeping political power that it desires, so non-Baha'is need not worry. But regardless of practical realities, the fundamentalist Baha'i theory of future theocratic governance is a bad idea."


www.bahai-faith.com/




the answer to this is quite complicated... without having read that pamphlet first there's no hope of comprehending the meaning and significance of Entry By Troops.

happy will be the day that my tax dollars are not killing innocent women and children in war crimes and crimes against humanity as we shove our head up each other's WhoHa thinking our ends justifies our means while demonizing the enemy for doing the same, when it is we who are the original terrorists. and have an active role creating today's turmoil.
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