Post Reply
Page 5 of 5  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5
3 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2012 - 8:44PM #41
Bob0
Posts: 485
Tune in to the election coverage and watch the arguments between democrats and republicans. Do you take a side? Most people do. Then look at all the conflict in the world. This is again, folks going to the extreme to change "things as it is". Look at the monks in Burma and Tibet self immolating. And all the people who attach feelings to their actions because they want the world to be different than it is.  Do you enjoy paying taxes, approve of the way the government spends your money?  Were your parents great or lacking? How about your boss or boyfriend? How about brothers and sisters? I can keep going.

 

Most people suffer because they want the world different than it is. Both liberals and conservatives, make a living off this dukkha. So do the governors of Afghanistan and Iraq. This is why I say take a look around and also look within. What made you want the house that had the leaky toilet that caused you to desire a plumber? Was it a husband, children, a dog, a father that you wanted to impress, greed of investment rather than paying rent? On and on dukkha. How to we arrive at dukkha? Learned behavior. Because of this, that. Desire or craviong =dukkha.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2012 - 9:06PM #42
Bob0
Posts: 485
Post 26 Bob the L. "Neither. Nor was suffering really a concern. For starters, he taught suffering itself was a delusion. "


I'd never thought about it before. Most Buddhist I've encountered believe in the Four Nobel Truths of Suffering and the Eightfold Path to extinguish suffering. Suffering is a big deal, especially it's extinguishment. Are you saying that Nicheren de emphasized the Four Nobel Truths and the Eightfold Path?


AN IX.13 So, then, with what purpose isthe holy life lived under the Blessed One?"

"The holy life, my friend, is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose of knowing, seeing, attaining, realizing, & breaking through to what has been unknown, unseen, unattained, unrealized, and not broken through to."


"And what, friend Sariputta, is the unknown, unseen, unattained, unrealized and not broken-through-to that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose of knowing, seeing, attaining, realizing, & breaking through to?"


"'This is stress,' my friend; 'This is the origination of stress,' my friend; 'This is the cessation of stress,' my friend; 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress,' my friend, is the unknown, unseen, unattained, unrealized and not broken-through-to that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose of knowing, seeing, attaining, realizing, & breaking through to. This is the unknown, unseen, unattained, unrealized and not broken-through-to that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose of knowing, seeing, attaining, realizing, & breaking through to."


www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an09...


Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2012 - 9:09PM #43
SeraphimR
Posts: 9,968

Feb 16, 2012 -- 8:44PM, Bob0 wrote:


Tune in to the election coverage and watch the arguments between democrats and republicans. Do you take a side? Most people do. Then look at all the conflict in the world. This is again, folks going to the extreme to change "things as it is". Look at the monks in Burma and Tibet self immolating. And all the people who attach feelings to their actions because they want the world to be different than it is.  Do you enjoy paying taxes, approve of the way the government spends your money?  Were your parents great or lacking? How about your boss or boyfriend? How about brothers and sisters? I can keep going.

 

Most people suffer because they want the world different than it is. Both liberals and conservatives, make a living off this dukkha. So do the governors of Afghanistan and Iraq. This is why I say take a look around and also look within. What made you want the house that had the leaky toilet that caused you to desire a plumber? Was it a husband, children, a dog, a father that you wanted to impress, greed of investment rather than paying rent? On and on dukkha. How to we arrive at dukkha? Learned behavior. Because of this, that. Desire or craviong =dukkha.



I am content with my life and the world the way it is.  I don't think I have a clue as to how to improve it. 


You don't have to study Buddhism to be content with your lot in life.

People with a mission to save the earth want the earth to seem worse than it is so their mission will look more important.


P.J. O'Rourke
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2012 - 9:39PM #44
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458


Feb 16, 2012 -- 4:53PM, Aka_me wrote:


Feb 16, 2012 -- 10:08AM, Bob_the_Lunatic wrote:

Most of life is a delusion seraphim.  christianity teaches that this world is suffering and you must escape it to a pure land elsewhere.  From the Buddhist standpoint, this is a low teaching of escapism, and could be likened to shooting herioin-one must escape reality.


Buddhism teaches that purity is in the mind and that no land has purity or impurity by its own accord. So "how one feels" does not depend on their circumstances, but rather how they are perceiving life.  While deluded, one suffers.  Once awakened, they experience limitless joy.  So-all suffering is a condition of the mind.  


If one sees life clearly, then every moment of life is a joy.


But I would expect it hard for a christian to follow this thinking, for it is the opposite of their teaching.



nirvana's elimination of craving, provides the heroin to escape rebirth... means the example doesn't hold up well.





I wasn't aware we were trying to escape rebirth.  Your new religion is very fascinating aka.

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2012 - 9:48PM #45
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

Feb 16, 2012 -- 8:01PM, Bob0 wrote:


Bob the L, we need to talk. I know a little about Nicheren but I'm not an expert. Do you acknowledge the Buddha's teachings of the Four Nobel Truths and the Eightfold Path? Specifically do you acknowledge the wisdom of Right Speech? Most of my knowledge of the Dharma comes from Theravada.



"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."— SN 45.8


"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will." AN 5.198


"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will." AN 5.198


Personally I find right speech to be the hardest of the Eightfold Path to follow. Often through old bad learned habits I lash out in anger and frustration. I realize that it can be frustrating discussing held beliefs with others, especially non-Buddhists but this is part of our practice. At least this is what I believe.


That said these comments cause me to wonder:


Post 22 "However, I for one do not have some sick idea like Mother Theresa that suffering is a good thing.


post 26 "Then I would suggest you are a poor researcher." Possibly selective would have been a better word.


post 31 "This isn't that complicated....well, maybe it would be for a troll lol."





Hi Bob, I'm sorry you feel I don't represent Buddhism well in some of my responses.  I am just a human being, and a lousy Buddhist at the moment.  The eightfold path is not a core part of our theory.   Nor are there any rules (other than continue chanting).  This makes sense to me as when I am practicing correctly-there's no need for any rules or "mindfulness".  And while there are trolls on this thread, perhaps you are right that I should not point it out...  


And I am no stranger to speaking to non-Buddhists about Buddhism, but usually they have a slight interest in Buddhism and dialog.


One point though-what I said about Mother Theresa is true.  And she has biblical backing:  When enough suffering has occurred, THEN and only then will Jesus return.  So she saw suffering as a great thing-I do find that "sick".

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2012 - 9:56PM #46
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

Feb 16, 2012 -- 9:06PM, Bob0 wrote:


Post 26 Bob the L. "Neither. Nor was suffering really a concern. For starters, he taught suffering itself was a delusion. "


I'd never thought about it before. Most Buddhist I've encountered believe in the Four Nobel Truths of Suffering and the Eightfold Path to extinguish suffering. Suffering is a big deal, especially it's extinguishment. Are you saying that Nicheren de emphasized the Four Nobel Truths and the Eightfold Path?





The Four noble truths are part of our doctrine, but I believe it would be best to say Nichiren "replaced" the eightfold path.  To give you an idea of what I meant above, on our Gohonzon is written "Earthly Desires are Enlightenment".  A bit revolutionary to a Theravada Buddhist I imagine.  The idea however, is that the practice itself awakens one.  This process is called "Human Revolution".  That is, as one practices, their karma changes, and the practices you refer to would be inclusive.  By this I mean, that by awakening wisdom-one acts, speaks, etc. properly by the fact that their nature has changed. 


For example:  We have no rules against materialism.  Upon taking faith in this practice, due to a realization I had while reciting the sutra, I changed many things instantly-without thinking, without pondering-just as a natural course of being in touch with The Law.  I gave away most of my possessions, instantly quit smoking without a second thought, and gave up a plethora of other desires.  But again-I didn't think about it, I saw the cigarettes, threw them away-no thinking.  This is how it is.  So I don't see that the eightfold path is even considered in my sect.  Because our primary practice accomplishes the same thing.  


Hope that clarifies for you.

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2012 - 10:32PM #47
Bob0
Posts: 485

Thanks. Yes it did clarify. And we seemed to be able to communicate without being nasty to each other. Our Buddhisms are quite different and must be very confusing to non-Buddhiusts.


 


Wishing you small tranquil days,


Bob

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 5 of 5  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook