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Switch to Forum Live View Why Jews are Called Jews
3 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2011 - 10:27PM #1
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808
Why Jews are Called Jews

The reason why we are called Jews, and that we come from the Tribe of Judah, it is all based on God's promise to David that his Tribe (of Judah) would remain as a lamp in Jerusalem forever. (I Kings 11:36)

The reason for this promise is that it was in the desings of God to reject the Tabernacle of Joseph, aka Ephraim, aka the Ten Tribes of Israel and confirm Judah as the Tribe promised to David to stay forever. That's in Psalm 78:67-69.

Then, after this was done, by the time the Assyrians conquered the Kingdom of the North, aka Israel, that was taken to Assyria and the whole population replaced with Gentiles from Assyria, Israel had been lost forever amongst the nations and assimilated with the Gentiles. That was in the year 721 BCE.

About 100 years later, 131 to be precise, if we take from Josephus in his "The Antiquities of the Jews", Judah was conquered by the Babylonians and taken for a temporary exile of 70 years. But prior to the conquest of Judah by Babylon, about two thirds of the Levites and a few thousands from the other Tribes had escaped to Judah in the South to become one with the Jewish People. That was the moratorium span of time when, to become a Jew, one did not have to convert.

After the exile was over, Judah returned to the Land of Israel as one people and one nation only. The Tribal system was over. Only Judah was in the whole land of Israel; eventually, North and South, as the population grew in number. That's how the Jews got the name from, and Judaism had originated from. The Ten Tribes had got lost forever.(Eze. 37:22)

Ben
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3 years ago  ::  Oct 29, 2011 - 4:10PM #2
river8101
Posts: 5,540

The Assyrians conqurered Israel because Israel was prosperous.  Mainly Assyria wanted their land and concentrated mainly on the wealthy classes.  They stole their land as the Syrians are trying to do today.   The poorer classes and those who got away fled south to Judaea.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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3 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2011 - 9:52PM #3
Bunsinspace
Posts: 5,900

Oct 28, 2011 -- 10:27PM, Ben Masada wrote:


Why Jews are Called Jews

The reason why we are called Jews, and that we come from the Tribe of Judah, it is all based on God's promise to David that his Tribe (of Judah) would remain as a lamp in Jerusalem forever. (I Kings 11:36)


....





BS"D


I don't think that's the way "we Jews" understand it.  I am from the tribe Levi myself, not Judah.  And that promise was for the leader, not the people AFAIK.


We are not named for the tribe of Judah, but for the kingdom of that name which remained faithful to Hashem when the Northern kingdom assimilated and fell into idolatry and lost their tribal identities.

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2011 - 9:15AM #4
IDBC
Posts: 4,445

Howdy


I recently went to a Meetup in NYC at:


www.meetup.com/The-City-Congregation-for...


JUDAISM 101: WHILE STANDING ON ONE FOOT Philosophy 101 / BASIC BELIEFS AND PRINCIPLES OF JUDAISM: Are these our beliefs too? 


I think I was the only gentile to attend. 


One of the things that the rabbi said that I certainly agree that is true is that you can have two Jews and three opinions. 


Of course this doesn't apply to only Jews. 


It is my understanding that at one time there were twelve tribe of Isreal.  Ten of them settled in "Israel" and two of them settled in "Judea". 


That for a relatively short period of time both these kingdoms were united under David and Solomon.  


Without going into too much detail the southern kingdom of Israel was conquered the ten tribes were scattered and "lost".  


The northern kingdom of Judea containing two tribes the tribes of Judah and Levites survived until appox 70 AD.  when  the Roman Empire conquered Judea. If I recall correctly there was a brief re-establishment of Judea around 180 AD. The Romans again conquered Judea and then re-named it Palestine.  


My question is why in 1948 was the Jewish country named "Israel" instead of Judea?


 

HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2011 - 9:28AM #5
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,208

Because Jews are the people of Israel. (Jacob was also known as Israel it is in Genisis)  

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2011 - 10:34AM #6
ffb
Posts: 2,113

the schism after solomon's time led to two kingdoms -- the kingdom of Israel, so named because it contained the bulk of the tribes of the children of Israel (Jacob). The kingdom of Judah was named after the larger of the tribes which populated it. The people beforehand were all, together, the nation of Israel.


As this country is designed to be a reconstitution of the biblical kingdom, it is a reconstitution of the optimal nation, not of a part of t nation torn by civil war. Thus, it is Israel, as a continuation of the complete and whole people of Israel.

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 17, 2011 - 5:13PM #7
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

I don't think anyone denies who the Jews originally were Ben.  The issue at hand is what is a Jew today.  And the word certainly implies more things than what one believes.  To suggest otherwise is to ignore lots of Jews and lots of scholars.


We've been over this, the evidence was presented, your argument lost.


There is no question there is an ethnicity issue here, not just a religious one.


Now why not play nice and accept the facts as they are.

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 17, 2011 - 6:29PM #8
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,208

Bob


Jews are a people, we are the children of Israel. We are not a race nor an ethnic group. We refuse to be defined by outsiders, your definitions do not interest us. It is the height of gaul for someone who is not Jewish to think that they have the right to define Jews and or Judaism. At best it is disrespectful, usually it is something else altogether. 


 

Moderated by Bunsinspace on Nov 20, 2011 - 06:37PM
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 17, 2011 - 6:54PM #9
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458




Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation, an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture, making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used.[25] Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who were born to a Jewish family regardless of whether or not they follow the religion; those who have some Jewish ancestral background or lineage (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent); and people without any Jewish ancestral background or lineage who have formally converted to Judaism and therefore are followers of the religion.[26]


Historical definitions of Jewish identity have traditionally been based on halakhic definitions of matrilineal descent, and halakhic conversions. Historical definitions of who is a Jew date back to the codification of the oral tradition into the Babylonian Talmud. Interpretations of sections of the Tanakh, such as Deuteronomy 7:1–5, by learned Jewish sages, are used as a warning against intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews because "[the non-Jewish husband] will cause your child to turn away from Me and they will worship the gods of others." Leviticus 24:10 says that the son in a marriage between a Hebrew woman and an Egyptian man is "of the community of Israel." This contrasts with Ezra 10:2–3, where Israelites returning from Babylon vow to put aside their gentile wives and their children.[27][28] Since the Haskalah, these halakhic interpretations of Jewish identity have been challenged.[29]


At times, conversion has accounted for a substantial part of Jewish population growth. In the first century of the Christian era, for example, the population more than doubled, from four to 8–10 million within the confines of the Roman Empire, in good part as a result of a wave of conversion.[30]




en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew#Who_is_a_Jew.3...



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3 years ago  ::  Nov 17, 2011 - 6:59PM #10
Bob_the_Lunatic
Posts: 3,458

Ah-another thought:


Considering there are only a handful of Jews after thousands of years (13 million is thus relatively only a handful).... I'd think you'd want anyone  you could get your hands on.

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