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Switch to Forum Live View Hatcher's Proof of the Existence of God
2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 1:25PM #691
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:23PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:18PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:13PM, Ken wrote:

I don't know anything about transcendence. Animals have various degrees and kinds of intelligence. Human intelligence differs from dog intelligence just as dog intelligence differs from dolphin intelligence. Is there anything about human intelligence that couldn't have evolved without divine intervention? If so, what?



What makes you think evolution isn't divine intervention, as such?


There is no indication of that. The process can be easily and completely explained without recourse to divine intervention.


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:18PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Again, "intelligence" is one thing. But we understand. We know.


And?




The process in and of itself is nothing. It's just doing what it does. Like water flows. 


I guess I'm not ready to give up theism for "process-ism."


Again, ultimately, the rationality of some of these perpectives really doesn't play out, IMO. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 1:26PM #692
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:23PM, Blü wrote:


mytmouse


So what are the answers?


If we possess this power, why do we need large brains at all?


If we possess this power, what can it do that large brains can't.


Or were you just talking out of the back of your pants?




I gave you the answers. 


Now think about it.


Or don't. I don't much care either way. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 1:28PM #693
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:25PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

The process in and of itself is nothing. It's just doing what it does. Like water flows.


And the result is, among other things, human intelligence. 


I guess I'm not ready to give up theism for "process-ism."


Again, ultimately, the rationality of some of these perpectives really doesn't play out, IMO. 



That's what you always say, but you never explain why.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 1:42PM #694
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:28PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:25PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

The process in and of itself is nothing. It's just doing what it does. Like water flows.


And the result is, among other things, human intelligence. 


I guess I'm not ready to give up theism for "process-ism."


Again, ultimately, the rationality of some of these perpectives really doesn't play out, IMO. 



That's what you always say, but you never explain why.




What's to explain?


There apparently is a claim or viewpoint that things are ultimately acausal or somehow self-caused, and that a self-subsisting, first cause isn't possible, apparenlty because it can't exist under the parameters of all that was caused. 


And that human sapience (not only or just intelligence) is, ultimately, just a happy accident of all the right circumstances. That the universe just some how produced a capacity by which it itself could be percived and understood. And for no reason or end whatsoever. 


Which, to me, is nonsense. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 1:43PM #695
Thetwofish
Posts: 581

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:23PM, Blü wrote:


mytmouse


So what are the answers?


If we possess this power, why do we need large brains at all?


iPods need music, but music does not "need" iPods.


If we possess this power, what can it do that large brains can't?


We needed umbilical cords while in the womb -- but do we need them now?


Or were you just talking out of the back of your pants?




I think those were your answers Blu.  I must confess, I'm just as puzzled as you are as to WHY those are answers.


Peace


<'{{><

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 1:44PM #696
redshifted
Posts: 2,283

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:42PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


And that human sapience (not only or just intelligence) is, ultimately, just a happy accident of all the right circumstances. That the universe just some how produced a capacity by which it itself could be percived and understood. And for no reason or end whatsoever. 


Which, to me, is nonsense. 




FYI, the Argument from Incredulity is a logical fallacy. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 1:47PM #697
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:44PM, redshifted wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:42PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


And that human sapience (not only or just intelligence) is, ultimately, just a happy accident of all the right circumstances. That the universe just some how produced a capacity by which it itself could be percived and understood. And for no reason or end whatsoever. 


Which, to me, is nonsense. 




FYI, the Argument from Incredulity is a logical fallacy. 




Yet, there is no good reason to be incredulous about that claim, or perception? Logic is a great tool, but if all you use is a hammer, all you're going to see is nails. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 1:49PM #698
redshifted
Posts: 2,283

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:47PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Yet, there is no good reason to be incredulous about that claim, or perception? Logic is a great tool, but if all you use is a hammer, all you're going to see is nails. 




You haven't provided any reasons. Just claims and fallacies. I would hope you've figured out by now that people on this forum are more inclined to be persuaded by logic and reason instead of bare assertions. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 1:59PM #699
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:49PM, redshifted wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:47PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Yet, there is no good reason to be incredulous about that claim, or perception? Logic is a great tool, but if all you use is a hammer, all you're going to see is nails. 




You haven't provided any reasons. Just claims. I would hope you've figured out by now that people on this forum are more inclined to be persuaded by logic and reason instead of bare assertions. 




Again, that's ironic, coming from a perspective that also puts forth assertions, and then claims a monopoly on "reason." That in an of itself should be enough to set any reasonable person's baloney detector off. 


Look, it's claimed there are no "logical" proofs for God's exisitance. Apparently, Hatcher has provided one. And I have agree with Lilwabbit. All the attempts to bring it down have so far, been not all that impressive, and have been couched mostly in misunderstanding -- deliberate or otherwise. 


Likewise, I've noticed similar misunderstsnding of much of what I post.


But beyond that, it's not at all unreasonable to conclude such a being, entity or force that we might call "God" could, and does, exist outside the bounds of things which apparently govern our parameters of existance. Such as distilled logic. 


Yes, you can fiddle about with distilled logic, and make it seemingly impossible for there to be any good reason for God to exist. But, all one has to do is step outside that little box, and see the larger nonsense of it. 


As I said way back, depending upon one's perspective, there are mountians of "evidence" to be seen every day. 


Starting with our own capacities and potential as human beings. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 2:05PM #700
JCarlin
Posts: 6,774

Apr 27, 2012 -- 12:58PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Apr 27, 2012 -- 2:01AM, Blü wrote:

mytmouse


mytmouse: We, obviously and self-evidently, posess a mighty power than transends mere biology.


blü:  If we possess this power, why do we need large brains at all?
If we possess this power, what can it do that large brains can't?
On what examinable evidence are your answers based?


mytmouse: (FACEPALM)


None out of three responded to.  All evaded.


So it's not just me who thinks you're talking through your trousers - you agree.


Very curious.


Don't ask questions that have glaringly obvious answers.


Gee, call me blinded by the glare. 


If we have this mighty power then why are we not still lumps of animated dirt? 


If we have this mighty power why do I have to study so hard to train my large brain to work efficiently?


How can I recognize this mighty power that transcends my biology?

J'Carlin
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.
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