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Switch to Forum Live View Hatcher's Proof of the Existence of God
2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 2:08PM #701
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:44PM, redshifted wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:42PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


And that human sapience (not only or just intelligence) is, ultimately, just a happy accident of all the right circumstances. That the universe just some how produced a capacity by which it itself could be percived and understood. And for no reason or end whatsoever. 


Which, to me, is nonsense. 




FYI, the Argument from Incredulity is a logical fallacy. 



I'm afraid it is. I'm looking for very specific arguments, not just "That's doesn't feel right to me."

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 2:13PM #702
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 27, 2012 -- 2:05PM, JCarlin wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 12:58PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Apr 27, 2012 -- 2:01AM, Blü wrote:

mytmouse


mytmouse: We, obviously and self-evidently, posess a mighty power than transends mere biology.


blü:  If we possess this power, why do we need large brains at all?
If we possess this power, what can it do that large brains can't?
On what examinable evidence are your answers based?


mytmouse: (FACEPALM)


None out of three responded to.  All evaded.


So it's not just me who thinks you're talking through your trousers - you agree.


Very curious.


Don't ask questions that have glaringly obvious answers.


Gee, call me blinded by the glare. 


If we have this mighty power then why are we not still lumps of animated dirt? 


If we have this mighty power why do I have to study so hard to train my large brain to work efficiently?


How can I recognize this mighty power that transcends my biology?




You seriously just asked that while posting on a computer plugged into a world wide network of cyberspace?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 2:14PM #703
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 27, 2012 -- 2:08PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:44PM, redshifted wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:42PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


And that human sapience (not only or just intelligence) is, ultimately, just a happy accident of all the right circumstances. That the universe just some how produced a capacity by which it itself could be percived and understood. And for no reason or end whatsoever. 


Which, to me, is nonsense. 




FYI, the Argument from Incredulity is a logical fallacy. 



I'm afraid it is. I'm looking for very specific arguments, not just "That's doesn't feel right to me."




Why should it "feel" right to any reasonable person?


As important as details are, the general direction ideas point in is also a good measure of their ultimate intelligence or rationality. 


Duty calls. I'll visit more with you and the other good folks here later. Smile

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 2:20PM #704
redshifted
Posts: 2,283

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:59PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Again, that's ironic, coming from a perspective that also puts forth assertions, and then claims a monopoly on "reason." That in an of itself should be enough to set any reasonable person's baloney detector off.



I don't know what you're talking about. Can you be more specific? What assertions? Who claimed a monopoly on reason?


Look, it's claimed there are no "logical" proofs for God's exisitance. Apparently, Hatcher has provided one. And I have agree with Lilwabbit. All the attempts to bring it down have so far, been not all that impressive, and have been couched mostly in misunderstanding -- deliberate or otherwise.



That's nice, but I'm afraid you may not be the best person to evaluate logical proofs. I've just pointed out one of your fallacies, and you don't seem to place much importance on logic.


EDIT: Although, a strictly logical proof won't cut it when you're trying to demonstrate the existence of an entity as Hatcher has tried. You also need sound empirical observation and evaluation.


But beyond that, it's not at all unreasonable to conclude such a being, entity or force that we might call "God" could, and does, exist outside the bounds of things which apparently govern our parameters of existance. Such as distilled logic.



Ok, well then tell us why it's reasonable. Again, you just keep saying stuff without any good reasons to back it up. It's not very convincing.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 3:03PM #705
JCarlin
Posts: 6,776

Apr 27, 2012 -- 2:13PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

You seriously just asked that while posting on a computer plugged into a world wide network of cyberspace?


Are you telling me cyberspace is a gift from God?  Sorry, with very little research I could put names to the large brains that created the key inventions that made cyberspace possible.  Or are you suggesting that Larry Page is God?

J'Carlin
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 3:31PM #706
jesus2point3
Posts: 248

Apr 25, 2012 -- 12:26PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 12:21PM, jesus2point3 wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 11:23AM, Ken wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 10:50AM, F1fan wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 10:15AM, jesus2point3 wrote:

Hey, I'm just some dude who tries to abide, and I acknowledge what the truth is. I accept reality exactly as it is, and don't imagine a world that's never been, of that you can be sure of.



Yet you make statements like: "I define God as the Infinite Reality that transcends both space & time" which is clearly not demonstrable reality.


It isn't even an intelligible statement.


In reality it's quite intelligible, if you understand the words. Merely look them up in a dictionary, and think it through for yourself. If you take the time to reflect a bit, you may begin to know what I mean. I'm not tryin' to be mean to you, I'm simply explainin' what the truth is.



I understand the words perfectly well, but in this combination they convey nothing.



And what of the Nothing Steven is Hawking? To tell you the truth, some will understand, and others will not, that's just the way it goes. Knowledge is the key, to understanding me, and evidently you're lacking.


Not that it matters in the end. You can believe whatever it is you want, and think whatever you desire, but in reality it won't change anything, regardless what you hope for.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 3:50PM #707
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 27, 2012 -- 2:14PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 2:08PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:44PM, redshifted wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:42PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


And that human sapience (not only or just intelligence) is, ultimately, just a happy accident of all the right circumstances. That the universe just some how produced a capacity by which it itself could be percived and understood. And for no reason or end whatsoever. 


Which, to me, is nonsense. 




FYI, the Argument from Incredulity is a logical fallacy. 



I'm afraid it is. I'm looking for very specific arguments, not just "That's doesn't feel right to me."



Why should it "feel" right to any reasonable person?


Rationality isn't a feeling. You're confusing intuition with reason.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 3:53PM #708
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 27, 2012 -- 3:31PM, jesus2point3 wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 12:26PM, Ken wrote:

I understand the words perfectly well, but in this combination they convey nothing.


And what of the Nothing Steven is Hawking? To tell you the truth, some will understand, and others will not, that's just the way it goes. Knowledge is the key, to understanding me, and evidently you're lacking.


What of it? I am not one of Hawking's admirers, and it doesn't concern me. Stephen Hawking and you aren't the only alternatives.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 10:32PM #709
mountain_man
Posts: 39,660

Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:09PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

...You, ironically, berate what you see as "opinon"[sic] by expressing, well, pure opinon[sic]....


ROTFLMFAO! Oh the irony of that reply is astounding! It still would be astounding even if he could spell 'opinion'.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 10:48PM #710
Blü
Posts: 25,062

mytmouse


I gave you the answers.


Towit, that you were just talking out the back of your pants.

First honest thing you've said. 

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