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Switch to Forum Live View The Qur'án on Tolerance and Democracy
3 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2011 - 2:16AM #1
Lilwabbit
Posts: 2,760

Since the "political Islam" thread was locked, I will start a new thread with the idea of focusing on the Qur'án. Sometime back I made the following little compilation of Quranic ayat on tolerance and democracy. There are many more verses than these (please feel free to share them), but I felt the following would provide a great introduction to the theme. I think it is important at the outset to acknowledge that many Islamic scholars, even today, support narrow-minded interpretations based on isolated passages from the secondary sources that seem to be at variance with the letter and the spirit of the Qur'án. Such interpretations cannot however be regarded as *more* representative of Islam than the explicit passages of the Qur'án itself. In my opinion, they are, more often than not, representative of *disobedience* to the Qur'án and should be thus presented to the world.


On racial equality:


30:22 And among his wonders is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the diversity of your tongues and colours: for in this, behold, there are messages indeed for all who are possessed of [innate] knowledge!


49:13 O men! Behold, We have created you male and female, and have made you into nations and tribes, so that you might come to know one another. Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of God is the one who is most deeply conscious of Him. Behold, God is all-knowing, all-aware.


On religious tolerance:


2:62 Verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds - shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.


2:256 There shall be no coercion in matters of faith. Distinct has now become the right way from [the way of] error: hence, he who rejects the powers of evil and believes in God has indeed taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way: for God is all-hearing, all-knowing.


88:21-22 And so, [O Prophet,] exhort them; thy task is only to exhort. Thou canst not compel them [to believe].


16:82 But if they turn away [from thee, O Prophet, remember that] thy only duty is a clear delivery of the message [entrusted to thee].


17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in the most kindly manner [unto those who do not share their beliefs].... Your Sustainer is fully aware of what you are [and what you deserve]: if He so wills, he will bestow [His] grace upon you; and if He so wills, He will chastise you. Hence, We have not sent thee [unto men, O Prophet,] with the power to determine their fate.


60:8-9 As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of [your] faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid [others] in driving you forth: and as for those [from among you] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers!


2:83 And LO! We accepted this solemn pledge from [you,] the children of Israel: "You shall worship none but God; and you shall do good unto your parents and kinsfolk, and the orphans, and the poor; and you shall speak unto all people in a kindly way; and you shall be constant in prayer; and you shall spend in charity...


3:64 Say: "O followers of earlier revelation! Come unto that tenet which we and you hold in common: that we shall worship none but God, and that we shall not ascribe divinity to aught beside Him, and that we shall not take human beings for our lords beside God." And if they turn away, then say: "Bear witness that it is we who have surrendered ourselves unto Him."


3:84 Say: "We believe in God, and in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, and that which has been bestowed upon Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and their descendants, and that which has been vouchsafed by their Sustainer unto Moses and Jesus and all the [other] prophets: we make no distinction between any of them. And unto Him do we surrender ourselves."


2:135-136 And they say, "Be Jews" - or, "Christians" - "and you shall be on the right path." ... Say: "We believe in God, and in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, and that which has been bestowed upon Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and ,their descendants, and that which has been vouchsafed to Moses and Jesus; and that which has been vouchsafed to all the [other] prophets by their Sustainer: we make no distinction between any of them. And it is unto Him that we surrender ourselves."


2:139 Say [to the Jews and the Christians]: "Do you argue with us about God? But He is our Sustainer as well as your Sustainer - and unto us shall be accounted our deeds, and unto you, your deeds; and it - is unto Him alone that we devote ourselves.


4:94 [Hence,] O you who have attained to faith, when you go forth [to war] in God's cause, use your discernment, and do not - out of a desire for the fleeting gains of this worldly life - say unto anyone who offers you the greeting of peace, "Thou art not a believer" for with God there are gains abundant. You, too, were once in the same condition - but God has been gracious unto you. Use, therefore, your discernment: verily, God is always aware of what you do.


3:113-3:115 [But] they are not all alike: among the followers of earlier revelation there are upright people, who recite God's messages throughout the night, and prostrate themselves [before Him]. They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and vie with one another in doing good works: and these are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, they shall never be denied the reward thereof: for, God has full knowledge of those who are conscious of Him.


5:5 Today, all the good things of life have been made lawful to you. And the food of those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime is lawful to you, and your food is lawful to them. And [lawful to you are], in wedlock, women from among those who believe [in this divine writ], and, in wedlock, women from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time -provided that you give them their dowers, taking them in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions...


5:66 And if they would but truly observe the Torah and the Gospel and all [the revelation] that has been bestowed from on high upon them by their Sustainer, they would indeed partake of all the blessings of heaven and earth.


2:111-112 And they claim, "None shall ever enter paradise unless he be a Jew" or, "a Christian". Such are their wishful beliefs! Say: "Produce an evidence for what you are claiming, if what you say is true!" Yea, indeed: everyone who surrenders his whole being unto God, and is a doer of good withal, shall have his reward with his Sustainer; and all such need have no fear, and neither shall they grieve.


On consultation:


42:38 Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultation; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance....

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2011 - 5:04AM #2
Ibn
Posts: 4,230

Thank you, Lilwabbit.


Of course there are other Verses that tell us to live in peace with whoever wants to live in peace with us but you have made a very good start on the subject.


If we are to discuss Islam, we have to make a start with the scriptures that explain Islam from the Most High. 5:3 was not from a Muslim but from the Most High.


I would prefer others to comment first before I add any more passages from the Qur'an on the same subject.


Salaam


Ibn 

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2011 - 7:46AM #3
river8101
Posts: 5,490

I do not read any ancient religious books literally.  All made up by people, and many in power do not adhere to the good stuff, but make war on others who believe differently. 

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2011 - 11:32AM #4
Ibn
Posts: 4,230

Sep 13, 2011 -- 7:46AM, river8101 wrote:


I do not read any ancient religious books literally.  All made up by people, and many in power do not adhere to the good stuff, but make war on others who believe differently. 



Ancient religious book called Al-Qur'an (The Qur'an) is neither all literal nor all allegorical. Asad translates and interprets Verse 3:7 from Arabic to English like this:


 


He it is who has bestowed upon thee from on high this divine writ, containing messages that are clear in and by themselves - and these are the essence of the divine writ - as well as others that are allegorical. Now those whose hearts are given to swerving from the truth go after that part of the divine writ which has been expressed in allegory, seeking out [what is  bound to create] confusion, and seeking [to arrive at] its final meaning [in an arbitrary manner]; but none save God knows its final meaning. Hence, those who are deeply rooted  in knowledge say:


"We believe in it; the whole [of the divine writ] is from our Sustainer - albeit none takes  this to heart save those who are endowed with insight.



Taking nothing as literal would destroy the whole purpose of the Revelation. 


Peace


Ibn

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2011 - 6:59AM #5
BDboy
Posts: 4,554

Sep 13, 2011 -- 7:46AM, river8101 wrote:


I do not read any ancient religious books literally.  All made up by people, and many in power do not adhere to the good stuff, but make war on others who believe differently. 




 


>>>>>>>>> I can share my POV on this. The noble Qur'an is the untimate source of Islam. There are parts of the Qur'an which talks about "After life" (Life after you die in this world), day of judgement, heaven, hell etc. I do not take them literally.


The Qur'an also talks about values, laws, history etc. I do not see any harm taking those worldly accounts literally. The amazing part of the Qur'an is it is a book with CONSISTANT message. Many scriptures of other faiths often contradicts with itself but the Qur'an is a living miracle and reconcile many of our issues with solutions.


You need not to agree with it but the spiritual side is very rich. I'll share a nice verse from it...


 


O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.


[ Source: The noble Qur'an 5:8]

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 15, 2011 - 7:12AM #6
river8101
Posts: 5,490

I still say that most of the "so called" holy books were made up by people, and many in power do not adhere to the good stuff in these books, but make war on others who believe differently.   Just look around at all the fighting and terror going in the world because of religious beliefs.  Sickening.


Religion is the opiate of the masses.  Truer words were never spoken.   

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 15, 2011 - 8:02AM #7
Ibn
Posts: 4,230

Sep 15, 2011 -- 7:12AM, river8101 wrote:


I still say that most of the "so called" holy books were made up by people, and many in power do not adhere to the good stuff in these books, but make war on others who believe differently.   Just look around at all the fighting and terror going in the world because of religious beliefs.  Sickening.


Agreed on the "most" part. The Qur'an is the exception. It was not made up by people.


Just look around at all the fighting and terror going in the world because of political beliefs, border disputes, national interests, arm sales, control of oil resource, and in the interests of making more and more profit. Sickening!

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 15, 2011 - 12:26PM #8
browbeaten
Posts: 2,795

Sep 15, 2011 -- 8:02AM, Ibn wrote:


Sep 15, 2011 -- 7:12AM, river8101 wrote:


I still say that most of the "so called" holy books were made up by people, and many in power do not adhere to the good stuff in these books, but make war on others who believe differently.   Just look around at all the fighting and terror going in the world because of religious beliefs.  Sickening.


Agreed on the "most" part. The Qur'an is the exception. It was not made up by people.


Just look around at all the fighting and terror going in the world because of political beliefs, border disputes, national interests, arm sales, control of oil resource, and in the interests of making more and more profit. Sickening!




Come on Ibn, the Qur'an was written by man with both the Tenach and New Testament opened before him.  It is fine to believe otherwise, but don't think you can, for one moment, sell it as FACT.


.


.

Moderated by Ibn on Sep 15, 2011 - 01:58PM
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 15, 2011 - 3:28PM #9
Ibn
Posts: 4,230

Sep 15, 2011 -- 8:02AM, Ibn wrote:


Sep 15, 2011 -- 7:12AM, river8101 wrote:


I still say that most of the "so called" holy books were made up by people, and many in power do not adhere to the good stuff in these books, but make war on others who believe differently.   Just look around at all the fighting and terror going in the world because of religious beliefs.  Sickening.


Agreed on the "most" part. The Qur'an is the exception. It was not made up by people.


Just look around at all the fighting and terror going in the world because of political beliefs, border disputes, national interests, arm sales, control of oil resource, and in the interests of making more and more profit. Sickening!



 


Sep 15, 2011 -- 12:26PM, browbeaten wrote:

Come on Ibn, the Qur'an was written by man with both the Tenach and New Testament opened before him


 Well, in that case, I am sure you can also write another Qur'an, like that man, by having Tenach and New Testament opened before you. Let's see how long it lasts and how famous, like that man, you can be. 


 

Sep 15, 2011 -- 12:26PM, browbeaten wrote:

It is fine to believe otherwise, but don't think you can, for one moment, sell it as FACT.


I don't have to sell anything. The Qur'an has done it itself.  




I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 15, 2011 - 3:34PM #10
browbeaten
Posts: 2,795

Sep 15, 2011 -- 3:28PM, Ibn wrote:


Sep 15, 2011 -- 8:02AM, Ibn wrote:


Sep 15, 2011 -- 7:12AM, river8101 wrote:


I still say that most of the "so called" holy books were made up by people, and many in power do not adhere to the good stuff in these books, but make war on others who believe differently.   Just look around at all the fighting and terror going in the world because of religious beliefs.  Sickening.


Agreed on the "most" part. The Qur'an is the exception. It was not made up by people.


Just look around at all the fighting and terror going in the world because of political beliefs, border disputes, national interests, arm sales, control of oil resource, and in the interests of making more and more profit. Sickening!



 


Sep 15, 2011 -- 12:26PM, browbeaten wrote:

Come on Ibn, the Qur'an was written by man with both the Tenach and New Testament opened before him


 Well, in that case, I am sure you can also write another Qur'an, like that man, by having Tenach and New Testament opened before you. Let's see how long it lasts and how famous, like that man, you can be. 


 

Sep 15, 2011 -- 12:26PM, browbeaten wrote:

It is fine to believe otherwise, but don't think you can, for one moment, sell it as FACT.


I don't have to sell anything. The Qur'an has done it itself.  




In light of the fact that you did not answer my question, what is it about the Qur'an that it "has done it itself"?  Is it the fact that there are a lot of believers?  He became as famous as Jesus, who didn't write anything himself.  So, what is your point?


.

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