I would like to quote some scriptures from the book of Job using Jehovah's Witnesses New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures:
Job 1:1-22:(emphais mine)
1 There happened to be a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man proved to be blameless and upright, and fearing God and turning aside from bad. 2 And seven sons and three daughters came to be born to him. 3 And his livestock got to be seven thousand sheep and three thousand camels and five hundred spans of cattle and five hundred she-asses, along with a very large body of servants; and that man came to be the greatest of all the Orientals.
4 And his sons went and held a banquet at the house of each one on his own day; and they sent and invited their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 And it would occur that when the banquet days had gone round the circuit, Job would send and sanctify them; and he got up early in the morning and offered up burnt sacrifices according to the number of all of them; for, said Job, “maybe my sons have sinned and have cursed God in their heart.” That is the way Job would do always.
6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.
7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?” At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” 8 And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?” 9 At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10 Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth. 11 But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.” 12 Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your hand!” So Satan went out away from the person of Jehovah.
13 Now it came to be the day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in the house of their brother the firstborn. 14 And there came a messenger to Job, and he proceeded to say: “The cattle themselves happened to be plowing and the she-asses were grazing at the side of them 15 when the Sa·be´ans came making a raid and taking them, and the attendants they struck down with the edge of the sword; and I got to escape, only I by myself, to tell you.”
16 While this one was yet speaking that one came and proceeded to say: “The very fire of God fell from the heavens and went blazing among the sheep and the attendants and eating them up; and I got to escape, only I by myself, to tell you.”
17 While that one was yet speaking another one came and proceeded to say: “The Chal·de´ans made up three bands and went dashing against the camels and taking them, and the attendants they struck down with the edge of the sword; and I got to escape, only I by myself, to tell you.”
18 While this other one was yet speaking, still another one came and proceeded to say: “Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine in the house of their brother the firstborn. 19 And, look! there came a great wind from the region of the wilderness, and it went striking the four corners of the house, so that it fell upon the young people and they died. And I got to escape, only I by myself, to tell you.”
20 And Job proceeded to get up and rip his sleeveless coat apart and cut the hair off his head and fall to the earth and bow down 21 and say:
“Naked I came out of my mother’s belly, And naked shall I return there. Jehovah himself has given, and Jehovah himself has taken away. Let the name of Jehovah continue to be blessed.”
22 In all this Job did not sin or ascribe anything improper to God.
10 And Jehovah himself turned back the captive condition of Job when he prayed in behalf of his companions, and Jehovah began to give in addition all that had been Job’s, in double amount. 11 And there kept coming to him all his brothers and all his sisters and all those formerly knowing him, and they began to eat bread with him in his house and to sympathize with him and to comfort him over all the calamity that Jehovah had let come upon him; and they proceeded each one to give him a piece of money and each one a gold ring.
12 As for Jehovah, he blessed the end of Job afterward more than his beginning, so that he came to have fourteen thousand sheep and six thousand camels and a thousand spans of cattle and a thousand she-asses. 13 He also came to have seven sons and three daughters. 14 And he went calling the name of the first Je·mi´mah and the name of the second Ke·zi´ah and the name of the third Ker´en-hap´puch. 15 And no women were found as pretty as Job’s daughters in all the land, and their father proceeded to give them an inheritance in among their brothers.
16 And Job continued living after this a hundred and forty years and came to see his sons and his grandsons—four generations. 17 And gradually Job died, old and satisfied with days.
Now I know that Job was compensated with seven more sons and three more daughters for the ones that God allowed to die, but what I would like to ask JWs is: How loving was it for Jehovah to allow Job's 10 children - his most precious possesions - to be mercilessly slaughtered because of a challenge that was presented to Him? Also, I'm curious as to whether or not God's heart was being broken when Job's children were killed, or if the whole challenge was just perfunctory on Jehovah's part. Plus, I was wondering if Jehovah's heart only gets broken when the offense is actually against Him.
Any comments would be appreciated.
I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.
~Ed2
"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"
"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."
"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."
~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)
"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."
~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
The way I read the bible is that Jehovah personally loves EVERY human that has ever lived on this earth. He does not love the destructive things we do, but because we were made in his image, most humans do good things as well. Adam and Eve brought death and sin into the world, and so, Jehovah created a new arrangement whereby some of these humans who were born from them would get the right to everlasting life restored to them. john 3:16. This would apply after Jesus paid the ransom for people who had faith in it, but also it would be applied to those who had been born before this, by resurrection. Job reveals he knew of this provision at chapter 14 verses 13-15. This hope would have been a comfort when all of his children died. Just as it comforted me when my son died. Did the ten children Job had later on compensate for the 10 dead. I don`t think so. No human can ever replace another one. The science of DNA proves that, but it did give Job the wonderful chance to love his own living children again. I love the other children I have, and if I had had more after the death of my son, I would appreciate them even more, but not one can replace that one that sleeps in death. The hope of the resurrection is so wonderful to me as I know it was to Job. We will both be happy when we see these children at the resurrection. Perhaps, I will live through the destruction of wickedness or perhaps, I too, will be like Job and need resurrection myself, but it is all too wonderful !!!!
The way I read the bible is that Jehovah personally loves EVERY human that has ever lived on this earth. He does not love the destructive things we do, but because we were made in his image, most humans do good things as well. Adam and Eve brought death and sin into the world, and so, Jehovah created a new arrangement whereby some of these humans who were born from them would get the right to everlasting life restored to them. john 3:16. This would apply after Jesus paid the ransom for people who had faith in it, but also it would be applied to those who had been born before this, by resurrection. Job reveals he knew of this provision at chapter 14 verses 13-15. This hope would have been a comfort when all of his children died. Just as it comforted me when my son died. Did the ten children Job had later on compensate for the 10 dead. I don`t think so. No human can ever replace another one. The science of DNA proves that, but it did give Job the wonderful chance to love his own living children again. I love the other children I have, and if I had had more after the death of my son, I would appreciate them even more, but not one can replace that one that sleeps in death. The hope of the resurrection is so wonderful to me as I know it was to Job. We will both be happy when we see these children at the resurrection. Perhaps, I will live through the destruction of wickedness or perhaps, I too, will be like Job and need resurrection myself, but it is all too wonderful !!!!
with affection from Marken
Marken, I appreciate your answer, but what I was questioning was how Jehovah felt when he allowed Job's ten children to be slaughtered to prove a challenge that was presented by the Devil.
Was God nonchalant when Job's children were killed since God knew that he had the power to bring them back to life again one day....or was God bothered by the death of these ten children?
I'm just curious about that.
I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.
~Ed2
"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"
"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."
"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."
~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)
"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."
~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
Philosophically speaking, Jehovah's standards are not consistant with ours, because you know he said his 'thoughts are higher than our thoughts' so we can't try to find a consistant standard with him. Like a parent that has ultimate control and the last say THERE IS A DOUBLE STANDARD .
So being 'made in his image' not sure what that means cuz Jehovah has allowed and even put in place a lot of stuff our human society does not tolerate, whole sale genocide, slavery, women as property of men....taking a bet with the devil per thread topic.
THAT SAID, 'he loves us, loves us not' I think its fair to say that God's definition of love and ours are demostrably different.
The way I read the bible is that Jehovah personally loves EVERY human that has ever lived on this earth. He does not love the destructive things we do, but because we were made in his image, most humans do good things as well. Adam and Eve brought death and sin into the world, and so, Jehovah created a new arrangement whereby some of these humans who were born from them would get the right to everlasting life restored to them. john 3:16. This would apply after Jesus paid the ransom for people who had faith in it, but also it would be applied to those who had been born before this, by resurrection. Job reveals he knew of this provision at chapter 14 verses 13-15. This hope would have been a comfort when all of his children died. Just as it comforted me when my son died. Did the ten children Job had later on compensate for the 10 dead. I don`t think so. No human can ever replace another one. The science of DNA proves that, but it did give Job the wonderful chance to love his own living children again. I love the other children I have, and if I had had more after the death of my son, I would appreciate them even more, but not one can replace that one that sleeps in death. The hope of the resurrection is so wonderful to me as I know it was to Job. We will both be happy when we see these children at the resurrection. Perhaps, I will live through the destruction of wickedness or perhaps, I too, will be like Job and need resurrection myself, but it is all too wonderful !!!!
with affection from Marken
Marken, I appreciate your answer, but what I was questioning was how Jehovah felt when he allowed Job's ten children to be slaughtered to prove a challenge that was presented by the Devil.
Was God nonchalant when Job's children were killed since God knew that he had the power to bring them back to life again one day....or was God bothered by the death of these ten children?
I'm just curious about that.
What we might question when we are thinking of this, is how did Jehovah feel when adam and eve brought death upon all their descendants? How did he feel when he looked at these two wonderful creations that he had made and knew that they rejected all the good things that he had given them and for what? A LIE. He knew when he allowed them to have children that these children were born under the condemnation of death and sin or imperfection. But he loved us all so much that he made another arrangement that his sent one could buy the right to everlasting life again. I personally feel he feels saddened every time a human dies. Isn't that implied in Jesus' illustration about the sparrows? Luke 12:6-7 He knew, however, that every human was going to die until the day of judgement. Job's children would not be alive today and neither would Job. Satan is so full of hatred that he will kill all of us with glee, as he did Job's children. We must keep our faith until the resurrection. We can understand love to some degree, can we love someone and not feel very hurt when he dies? Nor can Jehovah.
The way I read the bible is that Jehovah personally loves EVERY human that has ever lived on this earth. He does not love the destructive things we do, but because we were made in his image, most humans do good things as well. Adam and Eve brought death and sin into the world, and so, Jehovah created a new arrangement whereby some of these humans who were born from them would get the right to everlasting life restored to them. john 3:16. This would apply after Jesus paid the ransom for people who had faith in it, but also it would be applied to those who had been born before this, by resurrection. Job reveals he knew of this provision at chapter 14 verses 13-15. This hope would have been a comfort when all of his children died. Just as it comforted me when my son died. Did the ten children Job had later on compensate for the 10 dead. I don`t think so. No human can ever replace another one. The science of DNA proves that, but it did give Job the wonderful chance to love his own living children again. I love the other children I have, and if I had had more after the death of my son, I would appreciate them even more, but not one can replace that one that sleeps in death. The hope of the resurrection is so wonderful to me as I know it was to Job. We will both be happy when we see these children at the resurrection. Perhaps, I will live through the destruction of wickedness or perhaps, I too, will be like Job and need resurrection myself, but it is all too wonderful !!!!
with affection from Marken
Marken, I appreciate your answer, but what I was questioning was how Jehovah felt when he allowed Job's ten children to be slaughtered to prove a challenge that was presented by the Devil.
Was God nonchalant when Job's children were killed since God knew that he had the power to bring them back to life again one day....or was God bothered by the death of these ten children?
I'm just curious about that.
What we might question when we are thinking of this, is how did Jehovah feel when adam and eve brought death upon all their descendants? How did he feel when he looked at these two wonderful creations that he had made and knew that they rejected all the good things that he had given them and for what? A LIE...
I don't know, marken, but the more that I hear that story, the more it sounds like a delusion that God or someone wants us to believe.
I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.
~Ed2
"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"
"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."
"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."
~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)
"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."
~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
What we might question when we are thinking of this, is how did Jehovah feel when adam and eve brought death upon all their descendants? How did he feel when he looked at these two wonderful creations that he had made and knew that they rejected all the good things that he had given them and for what? A LIE.
If for a moment I actually believed there ever were an Adam 'n' Eve, it would be my opinion that eating that fruit was the most important thing anyone has ever done to advance humanity. If they had left the "fruit" alone, we'd be nothing more than God's pet house cats.
Sort of like the "Eloi" of Jules Verne's The Time Machine.
Christians are not supposed to place bets, and here we have god placing a bet with satan.
Are you suggesting "Spanish Train" by Chris DeBurgh?
According to 2nd Corinthians 3:2, there are five gospels in the world. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and the Epistle of ones own life. Most people will probably never read the first four.
God desires that our lives would bear spiritual fruit - not religious nuts.