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Switch to Forum Live View Buddha's enlightenment / Jesus' kingdom of God on earth
3 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2011 - 8:55AM #21
Lilwabbit
Posts: 2,921

Sep 12, 2011 -- 10:35AM, dio wrote:


I know Jesus and Buddha had very different lives, but can't help but wonder if they hadn't found the same truth.



I couldn't agree more. I am personally convinced, as a cherished article of my faith, that these two glorious souls shone forth the same Light.


"That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated."


"It is clear and evident, therefore, that any apparent variation in the intensity of their light is not inherent in the light itself, but should rather be attributed to the varying receptivity of an ever-changing world. Every Prophet Whom the Almighty and Peerless Creator hath purposed to send to the peoples of the earth hath been entrusted with a Message, and charged to act in a manner that would best meet the requirements of the age in which He appeared. God’s purpose in sending His Prophets unto men is twofold. The first is to liberate the children of men from the darkness of ignorance, and guide them to the light of true understanding. The second is to ensure the peace and tranquillity of mankind, and provide all the means by which they can be established."


- Bahá'u'lláh



With kind regards,


LilWabbit


EDIT: Quote source added.
"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2011 - 10:36AM #22
dio
Posts: 5,136

Another similarity I find is where jesus teaches above the Moses' law don't even think about it,  and  Buddha teaches similarly the mind is the place we need to clean up by purging our minds of destructive thoughts and delusions.


Here is what Jesus says;


Matthe 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


I believe Zen  Buddhism teaches how to do it through Zazen practice purging our minds and hearts.


I came across a Zen story on the different ways we look at the same thing about an old monk, a young monk and pritty young lady at a mud puddle on the way home. The young lady was all dressed up and weeping not wanting to get  to get dirty. The old monk saw her predicament and with no other thought than to help picked her up and set her down on the other side. Glad to be able to help her.


The young monk however was not happy to see her because he didn't see a damsel in distress rather he saw a desireable young lady. Picking her up would cause great problem for him because of the way he saw this same girl. Because he saw her as an object of desire he would struggel for a month or more, whenever she came to mind.


Here are two monks who see the same girl differently. One as a damsel in distress and one as an object of desire.


How we see the world is determined in our minds and hearts.


Zen ans Jesus are teaching the same thing which is maintain a pure mind so we can see the world as it really presents itself to us.


Jesus and Buddha are absolutely teaching have a pure mind.  

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2011 - 1:49PM #23
Lilwabbit
Posts: 2,921

Sep 20, 2011 -- 10:36AM, dio wrote:


Another similarity I find is where jesus teaches above the Moses' law don't even think about it,  and  Buddha teaches similarly the mind is the place we need to clean up by purging our minds of destructive thoughts and delusions.


Here is what Jesus says;


Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.



"Still your mind in Me, still your intellect in Me, and without doubt you will be united with Me forever." (Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita, 12:8)


"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world. Speak or act with a pure mind and happiness will follow you." (Buddha, Dhammapada)


"The righteous -- Those who spend freely, whether in prosperity or adversity; who restrain anger and pardon all men." (Muhammad, Qur'án, 3:134)


"Those who spend their wealth for increase in self-purification, and have in their minds no favour from anyone for which a reward is expected in return. But only the desire to seek for the Countenance of their Lord, Most High." (Qur'án, 92:17-21)


"O My Brother! A pure heart is as a mirror; cleanse it with the burnish of love and severance from all save God, that the true sun may shine within it and the eternal morning dawn. Then wilt thou clearly see the meaning of "Neither doth My earth nor My heaven contain Me, but the heart of My faithful servant containeth Me." (Bahá'u'lláh, The Seven Valleys, pp. 21-22)


With kind regards,


LilWabbit


 

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2011 - 5:28PM #24
RenGalskap
Posts: 1,420

Sep 20, 2011 -- 8:55AM, Lilwabbit wrote:


"That the divers communions of the earth, and... means by which they can be established."


Hi Lw, one of the rules for posting here is that you must state who you are quoting. There's nothing wrong with the post itself, we just need to know the source.

Ren Galskap, moderator

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2011 - 6:15PM #25
RenGalskap
Posts: 1,420
In response to Lw's quote about prophets who come from god, I want to point out that the Buddha wasn't a prophet and wasn't sent by a god. His teaching came from himself. And while learning to love god or become one with god may be a worthwhile endeavor, it's not part of Buddhism.

And Dio has garbled his sources again. The story about the two monks and the girl goes something like this: Two monks encountered a girl and a mud puddle. One monk carried the girl across the puddle. The fact that the first monk came in contact with a female bothered the second monk, but the story doesn't say anything about impure thoughts. After they had walked on about a mile, the second monk admonished the first for carrying the girl. The first monk said "Are you still carrying that girl? I put her down a mile ago."

So both monks may have had sexual thoughts about a pretty girl, or neither monk. It wouldn't affect the story either way. Treating sexual thoughts as different from other thoughts is generally not part of Zen training.

"sick all I can think of is love and fucking the love song
hums in my groin listen my hair's white wild grasses uncut on
my meadow"
--Ikkyu
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 12:12AM #26
Lilwabbit
Posts: 2,921

Sep 20, 2011 -- 6:15PM, RenGalskap wrote:

In response to Lw's quote about prophets who come from god, I want to point out that the Buddha wasn't a prophet and wasn't sent by a god. His teaching came from himself. And while learning to love god or become one with god may be a worthwhile endeavor, it's not part of Buddhism.



Buddhism as we know it. I've lived a long time in a Theravada Buddhist country and the intuitive ordinary practice of Buddhism in the villages and towns is palpably theistic. As such, it is at variance with some of the philosophical formulae the monks hold so dear. The same is true to practical Hinduism by millions of village-dwellers who do not have the luxury nor the interest to embark on endless philosophical hair-splitting about the exact theological status of sages, prophets, Universal Consciousness, Universal Self and God Almighty.


Any intuitive soul with a pure heart will think twice before boldly lumping all these great teachers of mankind, whose ethical teachings and nobility of spirit are so strikingly similar, into distinct categories.


With kind regards,


LilWabbit


 

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 11:35AM #27
dio
Posts: 5,136

"And Dio has garbled his sources again. The story about the two monks and the girl goes something like this: Two monks encountered a girl and a mud puddle. One monk carried the girl across the puddle. The fact that the first monk came in contact with a female bothered the second monk, but the story doesn't say anything about impure thoughts. After they had walked on about a mile, the second monk admonished the first for carrying the girl. The first monk said "Are you still carrying that girl? I put her down a mile ago."


I never claimed to be an expert. I just shared my gut feeling after reading the story. Lust is just one of the stronger desires.  The purest view would be the one freest of desire whatever the desire may be.


The context in which I read this story was, the pure mind senses reality as it presents itself. I read the old monk sensed the true situation, while the young monk did not. Anyhow I thought the story illustrated two different views of the same reality.


Although the story is not about lust, this obviously inferred desire did cause the young monk to see the damsel as an object to be avoided rather than to be helped across the mud puddle. And avoided I might add because of his inability to see reality as presented.


She was not put there to tempt, the young monk, although he acted as though she were.


This is just the way I read it.  I was trying to point out the similarity, with Jesus' teaching the purest view is the freest of desire.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 4:54PM #28
Bhakta_glenn
Posts: 890

Having practised Buddhism, I am no stranger to the general Buddhist notion that God plays no part in the Faith.

 

But, if one really does not want to include God in any Buddhist Discussion, why not merely display a banner which advises that Buddhism is an hermetically sealed Faith; that Buddhists have no interest in the religions of a broader world. Where the notion of "Multi-faith" is anathema.

 

Whilst it may be the case that one may not find the Teachings of God in Buddhism, it is also the case that for Buddhism to take root in the Western World, it is going to have to both learn and practise tolerance towards other Religions; if it is to survive.

 

The local Buddhist Vihara is funded almost entirely by Asian people. Western folk have no real interest in the place. Just as the Christian Church is almost extinct, with the disappearance of many churches, Buddhism is not speaking to the youth of the inner cities. Just recently, there has been a spontaneous outbreak of rioting in several cities [UK].

 

Historically, Buddhism died in India because it was defeated by the Brahmins. When push came to shove, it could not compete with Vedic Brahmanism for Dharmas which looked after a person from the cradle to the grave. The Vedas offer a vast array of subjects which are vital for man to live a righteous life, in this world. They taught man the Paths to Joy, and Security, Financial Solvency.



Buddhism seems to pride itself on its rejection of the Ancient Wisdom of the Vedas. In doing this, it threw the baby out with the bath water.  There have been historical instances where all of the virile young men ordained to become Bhikkhus. But, this meant that tehre were  no good people left to work and support the Sangha in its Noble Duties. Without a Healthy Householders'  Institution [Laity], Bhikkhus cannot live in accordance with the Vinaya.


Brahmanism is not just about the End-Game of Enlightement. It perfomrs a Duty of Pastoral Care fo rthe Whole Ecology of Worldy Life. It takes care of the Environment. During his lifetime, the Buddha had to rebuke the Sangha for failing to understand the Vital Role of the Householders for the Health of the Sangha and its Survival.  Hinduism seems to have a better handle on this reality than Buddhism, which is becoming almost completely Nirvana-centric.
 

Buddhism, by contrast taught man that life was miserable, and then you die.

 

For the Householder, Hinduism has the Kama Sutra, which is not just about sex. It Teaches Sixty-Four Arts which are vital to living peacefully and successfully in the world. It also has its own Cosmology.

 

Historically, the Buddha never liked the Brahmins but, they returned his dislike and defeated his Religion, kicked it out of India. If Buddhism is to take root in the West, then it will need to develop diplomacy with regard to to other cultures and faiths.


For any Relgion to survive, and prosper, it must evoke the Love of the Common People. To Love God is to Serve God. To Serve God is to Minister to the Needs of one's Fellow Human Beings. If Buddhism is rejecting this, then it will not survive.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 5:34PM #29
RenGalskap
Posts: 1,420

Sep 21, 2011 -- 11:35AM, dio wrote:

I never claimed to be an expert. I just shared my gut feeling after reading the story. Lust is just one of the stronger desires. The purest view would bethe one freest of desire whatever the desire may be.


In the time that I've been studying Zen, I can't recall anyone expressing a concern over impure views. There is an emphasis on accepting reality as it is, including the existence of desire.

Sep 21, 2011 -- 11:35AM, dio wrote:

Although the story is not about lust, this obviously inferred desire did cause the young monk to see the damsel as an object to be avoided rather than to be helped across the mud puddle.


The original story involves Tanzan and Ekido, who as far as I know were roughly the same age.

The "obviously inferred desire" is your projection. It's not in the original story. Tanzan was a rule breaker and Ekido kept the rules carefully. It's possible that Tanzan picked up the girl because she was pretty and he wanted to impress her (i.e. he felt some sexual desire.) It's possible that Ekido felt no desire at all but was upset that Tanzan broke a rule. The point is that Tanzan wasn't attached to his desires and Ekido was attached to his rules.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2011 - 6:45PM #30
dio
Posts: 5,136

and the rules protected him from his desire.

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