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Switch to Forum Live View Opposing Political Islam
3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 12:37PM #91
arjun
Posts: 554

Sep 12, 2011 -- 12:28PM, Lilwabbit wrote:


Hey Arjun!


Will you concede that at least I tried? ;)


For not agreeing with me, I will dispatch an intimidating special squad of Indian Bahá'í aunties to lock you in the cellars of the Lotus Temple in Delhi and to chatter you to perpetual slumber.


Wishing you a genuinely good evening!


Your friend,


LilWabbit




Hi LilWabbit,


Lotus temple in Delhi is a beautiful temple. I still remember quite vividly my father taking me there for a visit and the texts of various religions layed out along the circumfrence of the hall.


It had a lasting postive introduction to me about the Bahá'í faith... untill you threatend me with Bahá'í auntiees launching a unjustified Jihad on me (Just kidding.about the Jihad part :) 

Your posts show that you are a student of history...but you are still trying to retrofit it into the Bahá'í world-view in my humble opinion.. I will respond to your post later


Arjun

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 12:43PM #92
Lilwabbit
Posts: 2,840

Sep 12, 2011 -- 12:37PM, arjun wrote:


Your posts show that you are a student of history...but you are still trying to retrofit it into the B'ahai world-view in my humble opinion.



No more than you are retro-fitting "facts" into yours. In my humble opinion. ;) The difference is that my preconceived framework stands scientific scrutiny better. And also speaks to the heart.


Looking forward (if you escape the clutches of the aunties),


LilWabbit

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 1:43PM #93
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Sep 12, 2011 -- 12:07PM, arjun wrote:


Sep 11, 2011 -- 8:24AM, visio wrote:




Arjun: As I mentioned elsewhere my 13 year old son is able to arrive at a greater truth that one man is not entitled to deprive other man of equal religious rights. He arrives at this truth unaided by any Islamic texts.



Visio: May well be so.  And wait for another 30 years, what would happen?  All that he said could all go into the drain.   You have to look at your karmalogy deeper.





Arjun: Are you saying that allowing every human irrespective of his religion equal religious rights is somehow bad as per Islam ? 


IF THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, THEN, you are a prime example that when all the hand waving is done about the "greatness of Islam" about the "Peace of Islam"...the reality is that Islam has FAILED. Far from being God's mechanism to provide the final and highest truth about freedom of religion to all of humanity, Its has FAILED in fact as I was telling LittleRabbit..it produces a spectrum of influences some of which is downright primitive and harmful.   I can go to tens of other r debate boards of other religions and ALMOST WITHOUT EXCEPTION no person of another faith has his/her ideal a world where fellow humans are deprived of equal rights to worship as they choose.  These religions are far ahead of your own (Islam) as far as knowing the divine truth about religious freedom is concerned. Yet people like you and the overwhelming majority of 50 other muslim controlled nations slavishly continue to idolize and worship primitive and false ideas that one human has a right to bully another human using therats of physical force to prevent him from worshipping God as per/his  own understanding.




 


Arjun,


You have been engaged in an exchange over several days with a number of people who are telling you that you are not being truthful about Islam, that you are unwilling to separate the acts of Muslims from the doctrine of Islam, and that your agenda blinds you from building coalitions with people who believe in change, but are not buying into your dismisssal of the value of our faith.  


Yet, you continue to perpetrate falsehoods and make erroneous accusations.  You are intolerant, intransigent and a terrible role model for either Hinduism or constructive intellectual exchange.  


In light of the fact that you are clearly not interested in discussing Islam, but instead are using this board to promote lies and an agenda of division and hatred, ironically, what you claim to want to stamp out, please justify why you should be allowed to continue to waste the time of people here who are interested in productive discourse and intellectual growth.


Salaam

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 2:15PM #94
arjun
Posts: 554

Sep 12, 2011 -- 1:43PM, Miraj wrote:


[Arjun,


You have been engaged in an exchange over several days with a number of people who are telling you that you are not being truthful about Islam, that you are unwilling to separate the acts of Muslims from the doctrine of Islam, and that your agenda blinds you from building coalitions with people who believe in change, but are not buying into your dismisssal of the value of our faith.  


Yet, you continue to perpetrate falsehoods and make erroneous accusations.  You are intolerant, intransigent and a terrible role model for either Hinduism or constructive intellectual exchange.  


In light of the fact that you are clearly not interested in discussing Islam, but instead are using this board to promote lies and an agenda of division and hatred, ironically, what you claim to want to stamp out, please justify why you should be allowed to continue to waste the time of people here who are interested in productive discourse and intellectual growth.


Salaam




Visio,  Discuss the issues if you care, instead of speculating on the motives  of the people and issuing wild accusations on people. 


A simple debate issue was raised..whch is:


 "If my 13 year old son who is a non-believer in the theology of Islam can come up with a higher truth on his own that all humans should be allowed EQUAL RIGHTS to worship as they please... Then..


Why should Islam be considered to have the absolute truth when its followers across a overwhelming majority of 50 nations have come to a  gross UNTRUTH that legistlation to deny EQUAL religious rights to non-muslims  is OK" ?  


In my view my son without the help of any Islamic book speaks a greater truth, while thousands of Islamic scholars across 50 or so nations after decades and decades  of study of Islamic text are still not sure if every human deserves to have EQUAL legal right to choose his own worship method.. The simple question then arises is to why then should ISLAM be considered to be from GOD when it has FAILED to achieve (in the overwhelming number of nations controlled by muslims) what my 13 year old achieves on his OWN ?


Addrees the above issue if you care to..else its better to remain silent instead of making wild accustions. This is a debate forum and I am within the guidelines....

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 2:41PM #95
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Salaam, Arjun. Other than you, no one is making wild accusations.  My observations are based on your ongoing posts and the wasted energy involved in circular debates.  


I asked you a legitimate question.  This is not a just a debate board, it is a discussion board intended for respectful exchange.  You have shown yourself to be indifferent to that intent to a greater extent than most. Why should an exception be made for you to continue to insist that everyone is wrong about Islam but you?


Salaam


Sep 12, 2011 -- 2:15PM, arjun wrote:


Sep 12, 2011 -- 1:43PM, Miraj wrote:


[Arjun,


You have been engaged in an exchange over several days with a number of people who are telling you that you are not being truthful about Islam, that you are unwilling to separate the acts of Muslims from the doctrine of Islam, and that your agenda blinds you from building coalitions with people who believe in change, but are not buying into your dismisssal of the value of our faith.  


Yet, you continue to perpetrate falsehoods and make erroneous accusations.  You are intolerant, intransigent and a terrible role model for either Hinduism or constructive intellectual exchange.  


In light of the fact that you are clearly not interested in discussing Islam, but instead are using this board to promote lies and an agenda of division and hatred, ironically, what you claim to want to stamp out, please justify why you should be allowed to continue to waste the time of people here who are interested in productive discourse and intellectual growth.


Salaam




Visio,  Discuss the issues if you care, instead of speculating on the motives  of the people and issuing wild accusations on people. 


A simple debate issue was raised..whch is:


 "If my 13 year old son who is a non-believer in the theology of Islam can come up with a higher truth on his own that all humans should be allowed EQUAL RIGHTS to worship as they please... Then..


Why should Islam be considered to have the absolute truth when its followers across a overwhelming majority of 50 nations have come to a  gross UNTRUTH that legistlation to deny EQUAL religious rights to non-muslims  is OK" ?  


In my view my son without the help of any Islamic book speaks a greater truth, while thousands of Islamic scholars across 50 or so nations after decades and decades  of study of Islamic text are still not sure if every human deserves to have EQUAL legal right to choose his own worship method.. The simple question then arises is to why then should ISLAM be considered to be from GOD when it has FAILED to achieve what my 13 year old achieves on his OWN ?


Addrees the above issue if you care to..else its better to remain silent instead of making wild accustions. This is a debate forum and I am within the guidelines....





Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 2:54PM #96
arjun
Posts: 554

Miraj,  Considering the fact that this board allows for "debate",  can you be specific about where exactly I am violating the gudelines. Can you point me to the exact guidelines..?

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 2:58PM #97
arjun
Posts: 554

Sep 12, 2011 -- 2:41PM, Miraj wrote:


Miraj: Why should an exception be made for you to continue to insist that everyone is wrong about Islam but you?






BTW River1801 already stated a few posts ago that she AGREES with most of my posts. So your statement that says EVERYONE disagrees with me is wrong... 

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 3:38PM #98
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Please watch the board for updated guidelines posted as a sticky for future reference.


 


 

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 4:46PM #99
Ibn
Posts: 4,479

Sep 12, 2011 -- 10:23AM, river8101 wrote:


Hi there Argun,


I agree with most of your posts, but it's been a while since I saw any of them.  Just to know, what I'm sure you already know, Jews do not read their scriptures literally but allegorically.  We don't use the NT at all. We believe much of the TaNaKh (Scripture) is a work in which the characters and events are to be understood as representing many events symbolically and express a deeper, often spiritual, moral, or political meaning.  To completely understand what makes sense or doesn't, one should read Talmud.  Jews do not believe in a devil either.  Good and bad are the consequences of people.  Jews do not believe events are connected to God, but some cultures use God to justify the evil they do.


In 3 thousand years, will some people believe that Harry Potter, Dumbledor, and Voldemort was real? 


Come over to FB and see my photo album on India where my son, daughter in law and their children visited there last summer.  They had a great time! 




Sep 12, 2011 -- 11:54AM, arjun wrote:

Hi River8101,


 Its great to see you one of the old-timers  again :). Yes I have posted on Beliefnet after a long time.  Yes , as I had mentioned before its not just the scriptures that matter, its also the specific interpretation methodology/process that is used to interpret them that matters.


The Jewish people have a excellent track record of sensibly interpreting their scriptures as opposed to the mindless-slavish interpretations in my view quite common in the Islamic world. No wonder Jewish people have excelled in all fields of life. I will search you out on FB today.



Now Jewish people are no longer one of the Abrahamic faiths people he was criticising for being against idol worshipping but have EXCELLENT track record in that field?


Sep 12, 2011 -- 11:54AM, arjun wrote:

As you may know small communitees of Jews have lived in India for hundreds of years..and a Rajah had declared Friday a holiday to honor the Jews who served in his army. After Israel was formed most of them went to Israel..where they had a reputation of being noisy types of Jews (cant blame them..they had lived in India for long :)



Friday must be Jewish Sabath day. LOL!


We do have some well educated debaters here who are not only expert in Islam but in Judaism (the Abrahamic faiths) as well.


 

Moderated by Miraj on Sep 16, 2011 - 03:19PM
I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 5:14PM #100
arjun
Posts: 554

Sep 12, 2011 -- 4:46PM, Ibn wrote:


Sep 12, 2011 -- 10:23AM, river8101 wrote:


Hi there Argun,


I agree with most of your posts, but it's been a while since I saw any of them.  Just to know, what I'm sure you already know, Jews do not read their scriptures literally but allegorically.  We don't use the NT at all. We believe much of the TaNaKh (Scripture) is a work in which the characters and events are to be understood as representing many events symbolically and express a deeper, often spiritual, moral, or political meaning.  To completely understand what makes sense or doesn't, one should read Talmud.  Jews do not believe in a devil either.  Good and bad are the consequences of people.  Jews do not believe events are connected to God, but some cultures use God to justify the evil they do.


In 3 thousand years, will some people believe that Harry Potter, Dumbledor, and Voldemort was real? 


Come over to FB and see my photo album on India where my son, daughter in law and their children visited there last summer.  They had a great time! 




Sep 12, 2011 -- 11:54AM, arjun wrote:

Hi River8101,


 Its great to see you one of the old-timers  again :). Yes I have posted on Beliefnet after a long time.  Yes , as I had mentioned before its not just the scriptures that matter, its also the specific interpretation methodology/process that is used to interpret them that matters.


The Jewish people have a excellent track record of sensibly interpreting their scriptures as opposed to the mindless-slavish interpretations in my view quite common in the Islamic world. No wonder Jewish people have excelled in all fields of life. I will search you out on FB today.



Now Jewish people are no longer one of the Abrahamic faiths people he was criticising for being against idol worshipping but have EXCELLENT track record in that field?


Sep 12, 2011 -- 11:54AM, arjun wrote:

As you may know small communitees of Jews have lived in India for hundreds of years..and a Rajah had declared Friday a holiday to honor the Jews who served in his army. After Israel was formed most of them went to Israel..where they had a reputation of being noisy types of Jews (cant blame them..they had lived in India for long :)



Friday must be Jewish Sabath day. LOL!


We do have some well educated debaters here who are not only expert in Islam but in Judaism (the Abrahamic faiths) as well.


 




IBN,


The reason I have respect for the Jewish people is that irrespective of what their books may or may not say..they find a way to have a understanding of his true nature and act rationaly.  Their scriptures may have said they are the "choosen-people" but they have not gone into a historical frenzy to subjucate other faiths into believing as they do or else put to the sword (They dont have the sicko "Convert or die mentality"). They have not put restrictions on how muslims or Christians or Hindus or Buddhists choose to worship. Thats what matters, not some theory or a verse here or a verse their thrown around endlessly to show how great your religions is. 


When all is said and done. Jewish people have not gone on a frenzy breaking up Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist temples in the mistaken view that theirs is the only way to worship the divine.  Like every ancient faith, they were dealt with a certain-hand ("Their ancient scriptures") and they have done a excellent job of using it to contribute and live in a globalized world in a rational way.  People of all ancient religions face a simillar situation and the Jewish people have done a great job in handling that. The same cant be said of Islam as is evident in muslims depriving fellow humans of equal religious rights among almost all of 50 nations they have control over.


Arjun 

Moderated by Miraj on Sep 16, 2011 - 03:21PM
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