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3 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2011 - 6:41PM #1
Milltank
Posts: 64
Hell may be real, but what i'm disputing is that it isn't some under ground cavern that burns with fire and brimstone. i have many verses from the Bible to back this up. Let's begin.

Psalms 37:10-20
Malachai 4:1, 3
Rev.20:9
James 1:15
John 3:16... notice that it says perish, not suffer eternally.
Romans 6:23
Matthew 25:8-13
Isaiah 28:21
Rev. 20:10
Ezekiel 28:18-19
2 Peter 2:9

While hell is mentioned in the bible 54 times, of the 54 times, 41 times it simply means the grave, or Sheol, 1 time it means dark place, and 12 times it means place of burning, or gehenna, the valley of Hinnom. Notice that the verses continually says that the wicked will be burnt up, devoured, or consumed. It never says the wicked will suffer eternally. Try this logic on for size: If Hell is burning now, and your goes there after you die, would it be very just and fair to send someone who wasn't that bad but was lost because he/she didn't accept Jesus but lived before Hitler, to burn hi  longer than Hitler simply because he was lost and he lived before Hitler? Doesn't make much sense, now does it? Hell isn't burning, and it doesn't exist now at all. Hell is the second death, or the lake of fire, which is waiting and reserved for the judgement of the wicked and comes after Christ comes for the second time. Remember the verse that says, " fear not he who can kill the body but cannot do a thing to the soul, but fear him who can destroy  both soul and body in Hell fire." Just read it, it doesn't say burn eternally, but destroy the soul in Hellfire.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2011 - 7:54PM #2
Ed.W
Posts: 9,444

Daniel 12:2 and Matthew 25:46


 

‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2011 - 11:08AM #3
lope
Posts: 11,796

Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:

Hell may be real, but what i'm disputing is that it isn't some under ground cavern that burns with fire and brimstone. i have many verses from the Bible to back this up. Let's begin.

Psalms 37:10-20
Malachai 4:1, 3
Rev.20:9
James 1:15
John 3:16... notice that it says perish, not suffer eternally.
Romans 6:23
Matthew 25:8-13
Isaiah 28:21
Rev. 20:10
Ezekiel 28:18-19
2 Peter 2:9

While hell is mentioned in the bible 54 times, of the 54 times, 41 times it simply means the grave, or Sheol, 1 time it means dark place, and 12 times it means place of burning, or gehenna, the valley of Hinnom. Notice that the verses continually says that the wicked will be burnt up, devoured, or consumed. It never says the wicked will suffer eternally. Try this logic on for size: If Hell is burning now, and your goes there after you die, would it be very just and fair to send someone who wasn't that bad but was lost because he/she didn't accept Jesus but lived before Hitler, to burn hi  longer than Hitler simply because he was lost and he lived before Hitler? Doesn't make much sense, now does it? Hell isn't burning, and it doesn't exist now at all. Hell is the second death, or the lake of fire, which is waiting and reserved for the judgement of the wicked and comes after Christ comes for the second time. Remember the verse that says, " fear not he who can kill the body but cannot do a thing to the soul, but fear him who can destroy  both soul and body in Hell fire." Just read it, it doesn't say burn eternally, but destroy the soul in Hellfire.




I agree.  We have two possible destinies.  Eternal life or eternal death.  Ezekiel 18 goes along with this.  It says the wicked shall die and not live, but the righteous shall live and not die.  The New Testament says the wages of sin is death.  Jesus said He came that we might have life.

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2011 - 1:56PM #4
Kwinters
Posts: 22,595

You know why the Bible says lots of contradictory things about what happens after death?


Because it's just made up stuff, written by men who are as completely ignorant about anything after death as we all are.


 

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2011 - 2:11PM #5
dio
Posts: 5,139

an old lady told me, "life is hell - then you die" . What do you think?

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2011 - 2:14PM #6
dio
Posts: 5,139

Aug 25, 2011 -- 1:56PM, Kwinters wrote:


You know why the Bible says lots of contradictory things about what happens after death?


Because it's just made up stuff, written by men who are as completely ignorant about anything after death as we all are.


 




after death I am going to the place of the outbreath.

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2011 - 2:30PM #7
JoliverJOLLY
Posts: 440

Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:

Hell may be real, but what i'm disputing is that it isn't some under ground cavern that burns with fire and brimstone. i have many verses from the Bible to back this up. Let's begin.

Psalms 37:10-20




nothing to do with sheol, it's about the removal of the wicked and peace for the rightous.


"The wicked will perish"


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Malachai 4:1, 3




That following the same line is about Gods justice and the removal of wicked people.


"The day is comming I am going to burn them up, says Yahweh sabaoth, leaving them neither root or stalk"


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Rev.20:9




is about an army being destroyed by fire, their judgement will come after that, nothing to do with hell


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


James 1:15




About a sinful living death not hell


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


John 3:16... notice that it says perish, not suffer eternally.




It says "may not be lost" and I would suggest lost to God.


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Romans 6:23




"Wage paid by sin is death"


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Matthew 25:8-13




Stay awake?


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Isaiah 28:21




Gods mysterious work, I fail to see the relationship?


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Rev. 20:10




The first inhabitants are joined by satan, this is after the 1000 years of peace.


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Ezekiel 28:18-19




God uses fire to remove a tyrant


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


2 Peter 2:9




"When the angels sinned he did not spare them, but sent them down to the underworld" That's hades or Sheol


And consigned them to be held in dark caves til the day of judgement.


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


While hell is mentioned in the bible 54 times, of the 54 times, 41 times  it simply means the grave, or Sheol, 1 time it means dark place, and 12  times it means place of burning, or gehenna, the valley of Hinnom.


 




Interesting that


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Notice that the verses continually says that the wicked will be burnt  up, devoured, or consumed. It never says the wicked will suffer  eternally.


 




Because those verses are about the removal of the wicked and nothing to do with Hell.


 


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Try this logic on for size: If Hell is burning now, and your  goes there after you die, would it be very just and fair to send someone  who wasn't that bad but was lost because he/she didn't accept Jesus but  lived before Hitler, to burn hi  longer than Hitler simply because he  was lost and he lived before Hitler?


 




Hell doesnt exist yet.


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Doesn't make much sense, now does  it? Hell isn't burning, and it doesn't exist now at all. Hell is the  second death, or the lake of fire, which is waiting and reserved for the  judgement of the wicked and comes after Christ comes for the second  time. Remember the verse that says, " fear not he who can kill the body  but cannot do a thing to the soul, but fear him who can destroy  both  soul and body in Hell fire."


 




Yes fear GOD!


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Just read it, it doesn't say burn  eternally, but destroy the soul in Hellfire.


 




Isaiah 66.24

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2011 - 4:20PM #8
Brainscramble
Posts: 9,607

Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:

Hell may be real, but what i'm disputing is that it isn't some under ground cavern that burns with fire and brimstone. i have many verses from the Bible to back this up. Let's begin.

Psalms 37:10-20
Malachai 4:1, 3
Rev.20:9
James 1:15
John 3:16... notice that it says perish, not suffer eternally.
Romans 6:23
Matthew 25:8-13
Isaiah 28:21
Rev. 20:10
Ezekiel 28:18-19
2 Peter 2:9

While hell is mentioned in the bible 54 times, of the 54 times, 41 times it simply means the grave, or Sheol, 1 time it means dark place, and 12 times it means place of burning, or gehenna, the valley of Hinnom.


*****You're certainly  on the right track!  The 41 times that it means "the grave" show that this is what it means, period.  (And the grave is certainly a "dark place.")  The 12 times that it seems to mean a place of burning is because that place of burning is not "hell" but is translated, as you noted, from Gehenna.  So we have "Hell" translated 12 times from "Gehenna" and 41 times from the words "Sheol" or "Hades." (Sheol in Hebrew, Hades in Greek.)  Therefore, we can ascertain that Sheol/Hades is differentiated from Gehenna.  The words are not all the same.  The King James translators rendered all those words as "hell," which was not correct.


"Hades" ("Sheol") is simply the grave, as you noted above.  "Gehenna" was used by Jesus as a metaphor for the condition of the dead---non-existent.  When something is placed in a burning garbage dump, that something is eventually burned up to nothing.  Light a piece of paper on fire.  Where does it go?  It ceases to exist.  So does everything placed in a burning dump.  "Gehenna" is SYMBOLIC for total annihilation.


Therefore, we can see that there is no such place as a literal burning lake of fire where people go after they die to be consciously tortured forever.


 


 


 Notice that the verses continually says that the wicked will be burnt up, devoured, or consumed. It never says the wicked will suffer eternally. Try this logic on for size: If Hell is burning now, and your goes there after you die, would it be very just and fair to send someone who wasn't that bad but was lost because he/she didn't accept Jesus but lived before Hitler, to burn hi  longer than Hitler simply because he was lost and he lived before Hitler? Doesn't make much sense, now does it?


*****No.


Hell isn't burning, and it doesn't exist now at all. Hell is the second death, or the lake of fire, which is waiting and reserved for the judgement of the wicked and comes after Christ comes for the second time.


*****No, you yourself noted that Hell is the grave.  How can it be the "second death"?  Even the righteous go to "hell," because it is merely mankind's common grave.


 


 


 Remember the verse that says, " fear not he who can kill the body but cannot do a thing to the soul, but fear him who can destroy  both soul and body in Hell fire."


*****If you will look at a Greek Interlinear Bible, you will see that "hell-fire" here is translated from the word "Gehenna."  That is the word that Jesus used to symbolize total destruction.


 


 


Just read it, it doesn't say burn eternally, but destroy the soul in Hellfire.


*****You are right there.  The person is destroyed completely, in the symbolic Gehenna.


 


 





I am interested in your thoughts.


Pam

Christian Witness of Jehovah, the God and Father of Christ and of us all.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2011 - 4:26PM #9
Brainscramble
Posts: 9,607

Aug 25, 2011 -- 1:56PM, Kwinters wrote:


You know why the Bible says lots of contradictory things about what happens after death?


Because it's just made up stuff, written by men who are as completely ignorant about anything after death as we all are.


 





The Bible does not say contradictory things about what happens after death.  It is the twisting of men that has confused the issue, like when the King James translators rendered the word "Hell" from two diffferent words in the N.T.---"Hades" and "Gehenna."  The references to "Hades" are attached to no such idea as something burning.  It is always the GRAVE.  Gehenna is something quite different.  It means complete destruction/annihilation.  It is as if something were set on fire and burned completely up.  All this is clear if one looks at the original words in the Greek, which can be done by looking at a Greek Interlinear.


 


 

I am interested in your thoughts.


Pam

Christian Witness of Jehovah, the God and Father of Christ and of us all.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2011 - 5:04PM #10
Milltank
Posts: 64

Aug 25, 2011 -- 2:30PM, JoliverJOLLY wrote:


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:

Hell may be real, but what i'm disputing is that it isn't some under ground cavern that burns with fire and brimstone. i have many verses from the Bible to back this up. Let's begin.

Psalms 37:10-20




nothing to do with sheol, it's about the removal of the wicked and peace for the rightous.


"The wicked will perish"


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Malachai 4:1, 3




That following the same line is about Gods justice and the removal of wicked people.


"The day is comming I am going to burn them up, says Yahweh sabaoth, leaving them neither root or stalk"


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Rev.20:9




is about an army being destroyed by fire, their judgement will come after that, nothing to do with hell


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


James 1:15




About a sinful living death not hell


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


John 3:16... notice that it says perish, not suffer eternally.




It says "may not be lost" and I would suggest lost to God.


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Romans 6:23




"Wage paid by sin is death"


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Matthew 25:8-13




Stay awake?


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Isaiah 28:21




Gods mysterious work, I fail to see the relationship?


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Rev. 20:10




The first inhabitants are joined by satan, this is after the 1000 years of peace.


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Ezekiel 28:18-19




God uses fire to remove a tyrant


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


2 Peter 2:9




"When the angels sinned he did not spare them, but sent them down to the underworld" That's hades or Sheol


And consigned them to be held in dark caves til the day of judgement.


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


While hell is mentioned in the bible 54 times, of the 54 times, 41 times  it simply means the grave, or Sheol, 1 time it means dark place, and 12  times it means place of burning, or gehenna, the valley of Hinnom.


 




Interesting that


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Notice that the verses continually says that the wicked will be burnt  up, devoured, or consumed. It never says the wicked will suffer  eternally.


 




Because those verses are about the removal of the wicked and nothing to do with Hell.


 


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Try this logic on for size: If Hell is burning now, and your  goes there after you die, would it be very just and fair to send someone  who wasn't that bad but was lost because he/she didn't accept Jesus but  lived before Hitler, to burn hi  longer than Hitler simply because he  was lost and he lived before Hitler?


 




Hell doesnt exist yet.


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Doesn't make much sense, now does  it? Hell isn't burning, and it doesn't exist now at all. Hell is the  second death, or the lake of fire, which is waiting and reserved for the  judgement of the wicked and comes after Christ comes for the second  time. Remember the verse that says, " fear not he who can kill the body  but cannot do a thing to the soul, but fear him who can destroy  both  soul and body in Hell fire."


 




Yes fear GOD!


 


Aug 24, 2011 -- 6:41PM, Milltank wrote:


Just read it, it doesn't say burn  eternally, but destroy the soul in Hellfire.


 




Isaiah 66.24




Those verses are talking about killing the wicked and burning them up in fire, they say that the wicked will perish, not be judged to hell when they die, or suffer eternally, but will merely perish, or be burnt up in the day of judgement.

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