Feb 26, 2012 -- 12:45PM, cherubino wrote:

Feb 26, 2012 -- 12:23PM, hewy1952 wrote:

Feb 26, 2012 -- 10:42AM, cherubino wrote:

Now Msgr. Lynn wants sympathy.

Well.  Just thank God Bevilacqua died.  Now we can REALLY bury him. 

More on Msgr. Molloy here.

Cher

I continue to be utterly amazed, that "good" Catholics can read articles like the one from 2006 you posted here, and NOT scream out for accountability within the church.  But they don't.  The slience remains deafening.  And no matter how often the recent history of the church shows us that silence begets more abuse, they choose to remain silent. 

The bishops win.  It's that simple.  Everybody is expendible so as to keep the bishops ("the Church") in power. 

I can't help but wonder what Jesus might have thought of this approach...

Feb 26, 2012 -- 12:45PM, cherubino wrote:

Feb 26, 2012 -- 12:23PM, hewy1952 wrote:

Feb 26, 2012 -- 10:42AM, cherubino wrote:

Now Msgr. Lynn wants sympathy.

Well.  Just thank God Bevilacqua died.  Now we can REALLY bury him. 

More on Msgr. Molloy here.

www.bishop-accountability.org/pa_philade...

Look up Bevilacqua's testimony re:  Cudemo

Feb 26, 2012 -- 1:59PM, newsjunkie wrote:

They think that, despite the immoral behavior of Church leaders, there is still a mystical, magical Church that they can't leave.  Not only that, they think they can't disobey it, or betray it in any way. It's a mindset that some people can't change; they are just wired to think that way. Just like I can't help but question everything, and if somebody tells me something's wrong "because the church (or other authority figure) said so" I'm inclined to disagree. That's the way I'm wired.

News

I think you're onto something, perhaps really important, in your post.

For me, the choice to leave the church was in many ways gut wrenching.  It's something that still bothers me on some levels today, almost 10 years later.  Using your description, I'd say that I'm having to rewire myself. 

There IS something almost magical, almost mystical in the way the formal church likes to present itself.  And that sets a nice trap for people.  The problem of course, is that we are called to think, to build a solid conscience, etc.  Despite all of the strings that seem to get put on just about EVERYTHING put forth by the church (e.g., form a good conscience, but form it the way we tell you to...), I now understand that I can no longer rely on the words of others.  From all I have read,  VERY VERY few words ascribed to Jesus in the Gospels are likely his actual words.  Countless people, some with agends, some simply making errors, had the chance to "tweak" those words over the centuries.  At what point do we begin to see some of those words as less likely as being from Jesus, and more likely to have come from someone who wanted to see something put in place in church?  The RCC, for example, sure places a lot of weight on the "papacy" of Peter.  Yet, the more I read, it seems to me that the REAL leaders of the early church were James and Paul, and they went head to head many times.  Even the early church, and those people who were PHYSICALLY there along side of Jesus, seemed to struggle with what it all meant. 

I needed some distance from it all, and now that I have it, I can see things a whole lot differently.  My calling is to figure out how it all fits together, but only insofar as it affects me, my world view, and that of those I love.  To use your terminology, I think we're all wired a little differently.  And that's a GOOD thing.  We need to celebrate that difference, and to use what's different in each other to learn, to grow, and to develop wisdom.  THIS is what the current model of the RCC fails so miserably at doing.  While it's surely not a "one size fits all" kind of organization, I think there is a pretty limited/finite number of "approved" sizes out there. 

As we saw in Philly, and as we continue to see every day since those reports were issued, there remains a stunning, deafening silence in the church: almost as if it's a closely held, dirty little family secret.  If those who can stand by in silence on THAT issue, while at the same time blasting those who DO speak out: if those people represent what it means to be a Catholic, then I think my choice to leave may have been one of the best calls I've ever made...

Mar 5, 2012 -- 7:11PM, cherubino wrote:

Mar 5, 2012 -- 1:19PM, mokantx wrote:

...then I think my choice to leave may have been one of the best calls I've ever made...

For me it's been 47 years this month and I've alredy seen things unfold as I thought they eventually might. In 1965 I probably could have been locked up for saying where I saw the Church headed, and now all that is old, old news.

Cher I most certainly don't claim to have a crystal ball.  But if I live another 25 years, many of those conservative, "Defenders" of the church are going to be in something akin to shock when they realize what's happened to "their" church.   For as gregarious and personable as guys like Dolan might be, none of that will stop the trainwreck that's been set in motion since Vatican II.   The FACT that some of this stuff has become old news should be setting off Defcon 5 alerts all throughout the community that loves the church as they perceive it to be.   I say that, because that silence, that refusal to deal openly and forthrightly with the obvious problems, are signs that the cancer has metasticized in a major way.  The silence simply means acceptance.  There is no other rational interpretation that I can come up with.  One might argue it's yet another vote of confidence in those at the top, but even that seems to be a stretch. 

So I think the fuse is lit.  The next few papal conclaves are going to be fascinating to watch.  I'm inclined to think that there will either be another Council called very soon, or some kind of restructuring that will all but remove the papacy, and truly make this a completely decentralized church.  Right now, this "half in/half out" stuff just cannot last.  They've been called on it.

Mo, how do you think Vatican II set a trainwreck in motion?