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Switch to Forum Live View Jehovah's Witnesses never supported the Nazi's
6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2011 - 8:31PM #1
Newtonian
Posts: 14,082
It would seem that some have believed the slander against us that we once supported the Nazi's - see Imp's thread on the good news of God's Kingdom.  So I started this thread to expose those false charges as slander and to document accurately the history of Jehovah's Witnesses under Nazi peril.


For starters, please see our article defending against those charges here:

www.watchtower.org/e/19980708/article_01...

An excerpt:

"A few critics, however, including some former associates of Jehovah's Witnesses, charge that the Witnesses attempted to compromise with the Hitler regime in its early days. They claim that representatives of the Watch Tower Society tried unsuccessfully to curry favor with the new government and that, at least for a time, they endorsed the racist ideology of the Nazis, which eventually led to the murder of six million Jews.


These serious allegations are absolutely false. The following is a frank examination of the events in question, based on available documentation and historical context."


See the link for documentation and refutation of these false charges.


You all feel free to document further - I hope to post links to the National Holocaust Museum which has extensive documentation of our stand under Hitler.      



 
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2011 - 8:34PM #2
Kemmer
Posts: 18,459

 They claim that representatives of the Watch Tower Society tried unsuccessfully to curry favor with the new government and that, at least for a time, they endorsed the racist ideology of the Nazis, which eventually led to the murder of six million Jews.



The JW letter to Hitler has been posted on this board.  Give it up.

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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2011 - 8:34PM #3
Newtonian
Posts: 14,082


Links to the National Holocaust Museum concerning Jehovah's Witnesses:




 



www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleI... 




Additional links here:




 



www.ushmm.org/shared/search/searchresult... Witnesses


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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2011 - 9:26PM #4
Newtonian
Posts: 14,082

I should add that the declaration of which over 2 million copies were distributed in 1933 after our convention in question resulted in the immediate arrest if some Witnesses and sending them to concentration camps - clearly the Nazi's did not interpret our declaration as support or compromise with their regime!


Rather, we always apply Romans 13 - always have and always will.  But we never give allegiance to these superior authorities and always apply Acts 5:29 obeying God as ruler rather than men in conflicts such as the military issue in Germany at that time.


Here are additional links for documentation of our stand under Hitler:


www.holocaustforgotten.com/Jehovah.htm


www.chgs.umn.edu/museum/responses/steyer...


www.hmd.org.uk/resources/extracts-for-ev...


 

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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2011 - 9:28PM #5
Newtonian
Posts: 14,082

Jul 3, 2011 -- 8:34PM, Kemmer wrote:


 They claim that representatives of the Watch Tower Society tried unsuccessfully to curry favor with the new government and that, at least for a time, they endorsed the racist ideology of the Nazis, which eventually led to the murder of six million Jews.



The JW letter to Hitler has been posted on this board.  Give it up.





Sorry, Kemmer, but exposing slander as well as documenting the truth I will never give up.

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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2011 - 11:10PM #6
Upperlimits
Posts: 3,238

Cross-posted from "WTS has competition with Christians in the 'Pioneer Ministry' !!" thread.


Jul 3, 2011 -- 10:06PM, Newtonian wrote:


Jul 3, 2011 -- 5:23PM, Upperlimits wrote:


I think this is completely dishonest and a gross misprepresentation of that self-serving letter.  The letter actually announced that the JW's goals were *ALIGNED* with those of the Nazi party - most particularly as it pertained to *Jews*.  ie, that the JW supported teh idea of genocide against the Jews.


Exactly. Rutherford initially stayed out of the matter completely.. err, that is, until the JW's property was threatened. When it threatened to cause an issue with the WTS pocketbook, then - and only then - did the German situation become a matter of interest to him.


**********


They've also, to my knowledge, never bothered to give any apology to the people who by the MILLIONS were murdered by those Nazis to whom Rutherford made a specific point of aligning himself with their goals.


No. It was easier to simply change their doctrine.





OK  upper limits - to whom are you responding and whom are you quoting and what do you actually think about these charges?





I'm responding to LeahOne back in post 43 (Cross-posted from "WTS has competition with Christians in the 'Pioneer Ministry' !!" thread.); And I mean precisely what I say. Nothing more is expressed or implied.


*** yb74 pp. 110-111 Part 1—Germany ***
BERLIN CONVENTION ON JUNE 25, 1933
By the summer of 1933 the work of Jehovah’s witnesses had been banned in the majority of German states. The brothers’ homes were being searched regularly and many brothers had been arrested. The flow of spiritual food was partially hampered, although only for a time; still many brothers were asking how long it would be possible to continue the work. In this situation the congregations were invited on very short notice to a convention to be held in Berlin on June 25. Since it was expected that many would be unable to attend because of the various bans, the congregations were encouraged to send at least one or several delegates. But, as it turned out, 7,000 brothers got there. For many of them it took three days, some riding bicycles the entire distance, whereas others went by truck, since the bus companies refused to rent buses to a banned organization.
Brother Rutherford, who, together with Brother Knorr, had come to Germany just a few days before in order to see what could be done to ensure the safety of the Society’s property, had prepared a declaration with Brother Balzereit to be presented to the convention delegates for adoption. It was a protest against the meddling of the Hitler government into the preaching work we were doing. All high government officials, from the Reich’s president on down, were to receive a copy of the declaration, if possible, by registered mail. Several days before the convention started Brother Rutherford returned to America.
Many in attendance were disappointed in the “declaration,” since in many points it failed to be as strong as the brothers had hoped. Brother Mütze from Dresden, who had worked closely with Brother Balzereit up until that time, accused him later of having weakened the original text. It was not the first time that Brother Balzereit had watered down the clear and unmistakable language of the Society’s publications so as to avoid difficulties with governmental agencies.
A large number of brothers refused to adopt it just for this reason. In fact, a former pilgrim brother by the name of Kipper refused to offer it for adoption and another brother substituted. It could not be rightfully said that the declaration was unanimously adopted, even though Brother Balzereit later notified Brother Rutherford that it had been.
The conventioners returned home tired and many were disappointed. They took 2,100,000 copies of the “declaration” home with them, however, and made fast work of distributing them and sending them to numerous persons in positions of responsibility. The copy sent to Hitler was accompanied by a letter that, in part, read:
“The Brooklyn presidency of the Watch Tower Society is and always has been exceedingly friendly to Germany. In 1918 the president of the Society and seven members of the Board of Directors in America were sentenced to 80 years’ imprisonment for the reason that the president refused to let two magazines in America, which he edited, be used in war propaganda against Germany.”
Even though the declaration had been weakened and many of the brothers could not wholeheartedly agree to its adoption, yet the government was enraged and started a wave of persecution against those who had distributed it.


As I said earlier, "Rutherford initially stayed out of the matter completely.. err, that is, until the JW's property was threatened."


*** yb74 p. 110 Part 1—Germany ***
THE GESTAPO SEARCH THE BETHEL HOME
The Nazis were hoping to find some kind of material connecting us with Communism when they occupied the Society’s office and factory on April 24. In such a case they could have applied a new law and confiscated the entire property and given it to the state, something that had already been done with the buildings belonging to the Communists. After searching the building the police called up government officials one evening telling them that they had found nothing incriminating. The command was: “You must find something!” But their attempt to do so failed and the property had to be returned to the brothers on April 29. The Brooklyn office had protested the unlawful seizure of the property (owned by an American corporation) through the American government on that same day.



As for the changing doctrine comment, it is well documented that during the first half of their history, the Bible Students (modern Jehovah's Witnesses) were known for their sympathy to the Jews. CT. Russell was a supporter of Zionist causes. He refused to attempt the conversion of the Jews and believed in the Jewish resettlement of Palestine, After Russell's death in 1916, Judge Rutherford continued in his footsteps for more than 10 years.
       
In 1925 Rutherford produced a book entitled "Restoration," based on a series of radio broadcasts he had given, and in 1926 he published a similar volume called "Comfort for the Jews." In both, he proclaimed himself a friend of the Jewish people and asserted that Jewish migration to the ancient Holy Land was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy.


Identical Publisher's Forewords to "Restoration" and "Comfort for the Jews" stated:


"THE rebuilding of Palestine is claiming the attention of Jews throughout the earth. Some of the Gentile world powers are outwardly favoring the movement but manifestly for selfish reasons.


"JUDGE RUTHERFORD, known throughout the world as a friend of the Hebrew people, is vigorously supporting the claim of the Jews to the Holy Land. He is opposed to proselytizing the Jews, holding that such is not only wrong but contrary to the Scriptures. His lectures to large audiences, which have been broadcast throughout the world, on "JEWS RETURNING TO PALESTINE", have created an intense interest. There is a good demand for them in printed form. He has simplified these lectures and now presents them in book form. This volume will be of profound interest to Jews and Gentiles alike. It is the first unbiased presentation of the subject from the Scriptural viewpoint published.


"The Publishers send forth this volume confident that it will do much good."


In 1930 Rutherford produced a larger volume on the same theme called "Life." Without explanation, Rutherford changed his beliefs respecting the Jews. "Life" was suddenly withdrawn from circulation, and in 1932 Rutherford proclaimed that "fleshly Israel" had no specific role to play in salvation history. He wrote:


"The Jews were evicted from Palestine and `their house left unto them desolate' because they rejected Christ Jesus, the beloved and anointed King of Jehovah. To this day the Jews have not repented of this wrongful act committed by their forefathers. Many of them have been returned to the land of Palestine, but they have been induced to go there because of selfishness and for sentimental reasons.


"During the long period elapsing from the time of their expulsion to the present day the Jews have not "borne the shame of the heathen" for Jehovah's sake, nor for the name of Christ. During all this period of time, and particularly during the World War, the true followers of Christ Jesus devoted to God, and to his kingdom, have been bearing the shame of the heathen and have been hated by all the nations for Christ's sake and the sake of Jehovah's name. (Matt. 24: 9: Mark 13: 13)


In contrast to this, during the World War the Jews received recognition of the heathen nations. In 1917 the Balfour Declaration, sponsored by the heathen governments of Satan's organization, came forth, recognized the Jews, and bestowed upon them great favors. In this the seventh world power [the British Empire] took the lead. Now Big Business and other wings of Satan's organization place the Jews alongside of and in the same category as the Gentiles. Heretofore even God's people have overlooked the fact that the affairs of God's kingdom with reference to the things of the earth are of far greater importance than the rehabilitation of that little strip of land on the eastern side of the Mediterranean sea. The Jews have received more attention at their hands than they have really deserved. Therefore this prophecy [of Isaiah] must have its chief fulfillment upon the true people of God's kingdom which are now on earth."


To summarize: 1) Rutherford initially stayed out of these matters, and 2) JW's changed their position regarding the Jews. Thus, I believe you can see that I have not slandered JW's in the manner that you believe that I have.

According to 2nd Corinthians 3:2, there are five gospels in the world. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and the Epistle of ones own life.  Most people will probably never read the first four.

God desires that our lives would bear spiritual fruit - not religious nuts.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 04, 2011 - 12:03AM #7
Kemmer
Posts: 18,459

It is not hard to imaging that, after the promulgation of the 1935 Nurnberg Laws, and every Christian and pseudo-Christian sat up and began to take notice, that "things" had radically changed.


JWs still think in terms of "now" rather than "then".  Face it: the JWs pansied-up to the Nazis just like everyone else.  As the Jews were being taken from their homes and hauled away to God-knows-where--resettlement in the East as the stories went--it could not have been terrible or disrupting news to ordinary Germans of whatever persuasion.  Zeitgeist.

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6 years ago  ::  Jul 04, 2011 - 1:53AM #8
Imperfectense
Posts: 3,329

A reasonable person would see that any commendation of a ruthless individual or regime by those suffeing under such would be offensive and considered sympathizing or aligning with that one.  


Even the Cannes Film Festival acknowledged that with the comments of a certain producer:


www.nytimes.com/2011/05/20/movies/danish...


 


Please see this earlier discussion on the same topic of this thread:


Of couse true to form due to WTS's persecution complex, they never recognize actual victims.


community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/4...

WTS Bible Dictionary Insight-2 p. 1132 Truth
"Being “the spirit of the truth,” God’s holy spirit could never be the source of error but would protect Christ’s followers from doctrinal falsehoods. (Compare 1Jo 2:27; 4:1-6.)...)

Watchtower 1987 11/1 p. 29 Religion’s Tidal Wave—The Final Reckoning
Examine the religious institution to which you belong. Does what it stands for agree with the Bible in every way? If not, then your organization is part of “Babylon the Great,” or the world empire of false religion. Follow the command found at Revelation 18:4, which is: “Get out of her, my people, . . . if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 04, 2011 - 2:37AM #9
LeahOne
Posts: 18,418

I've had this discussion elsewhere.  I stand by everything I stated.


My faith teaches me that slander, like murder and like forcing sterility upon a person, is a sin for which there can be no forgiveness this side of the grave.  (it's a 'technicality' but it's important).


So yes I take such a subject very seriously.  And I do not knowingly engage in slander.  If you check the forums, you will find me making a public apology to one individual for mistakenly attributing to him some vile words actually posted by another person. 


For the same reason, that I take slander very seriously, the kind of anti-Catholic hate speech which seems to permeate the 'discussion' of so many JW also nauseates me.  NO, I'm not Catholic and I don't ignore their sins either - but if the WTS is truly doing GOD's Will, there shouldn't be any lies coming out of them.   Not a one.  Not even about Catholics or Muslims......


 

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6 years ago  ::  Jul 04, 2011 - 8:43AM #10
matica
Posts: 3,082

Facts are not slander.


There are only two ways to look at the Hitler situation; 1. He needed to be stopped, 2. It was no ones business other than Jehovah's to stop him(which is NO he should not have been stopped by man).


I do not have a memory of JW's here on this board, or other boards I frequent of JW's giving any credit to the nations that volunteered blood, families, etc. that stopped Hitler. Most of the time all I ever read is wars are bad, christendom runs the armies, christians make up armies, god hates war so god condemns those christians who stop men like Hitler.


There is never any gratitude or respect or thank you to the men and women who died making sure you were free to practice your warped view of religion. However these letters proved your leaders, the ones you are willing to die for, had great respect for the German Government, moreso than for those who stopped him.


Yeah, sure we all want peace, but I'll play a little Trivia game, who was it that said, 'I come not to spread peace, but the sword', said 'love thine enemies', then later on slays all of his enemies in the end?


JW's view who as the enemy....even those who help them?

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