Jul 21, 2011 -- 11:33AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

It is quite obvious that sense of humor is not an abundant commodity near you ...

BS"D

That might indeed be true.  Please forgive me when I fail to perceive what is meant as humorous when there exists no common linguistic mechanism to indicate whether a sentence is meant as serious or humorous.

Jul 21, 2011 -- 11:33AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

I side with Karl Popper, who argued that psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience because its claims are not testable and cannot be refuted, and, while he did not object to the idea that some mental processes could be unconscious, he objected to the scientificity of the "investigations" of the unconscious, because they are not falsifiable.

Fair enough.  You choose to believe Popper's characterization of Freudian psychoanalysis as subjective similar to that of contemporary Jungian psychoanalysis.  I choose not to delude myself with such an academic perceptual error.  The truth is that all perception is subjective and cannot be subject to dispute.  If Popper chooses to confuse that underlying reality with the advances in Psychoanalysis in making the subjective more accessible to the testable and demonstrable, that is his affair alone (and yours, apparently.)

Jul 21, 2011 -- 11:33AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

It is evident that you confuse and conflate Christianity and Gnosticism, then ... just like Celsus did ...

Uhhh, Gnosticism IS a branch of Christianity.   I did not "conflate" them I just pointed out that the Christianity being represented by the other poster WAS Gnosticism as opposed to, say, Catholicism or Methodism.

Jul 21, 2011 -- 11:33AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

Come off it at once! The problem is entirely with the clumsily convoluted way in which you (try to) express your confused thoughts in English.

The reality is not the obfuscation of the English language, but the widely divergent underlying biases that create said obfuscation between two English-speaking persons.  The specific underlying bias is that your particular faith is somehow true when everybody else's is somehow inferior or just plain wrong.  This is not your fault.  It is a primary tenet of your own religion, but not one that is universal to all adherents of that religion AFAIK.

Jul 21, 2011 -- 11:33AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

The question (still without a reply ...) is: HOW are they "disparate concepts of reality"?

As I will take your query as sincere and not merely an opening for another meaningless polemic I will put it plainly:

Judaism created a narrative to teach and instruct Jews how to live in this world.  It is very clear to every Jew who is educated in that tradition.

Christianity, OTOH, stole the Jewish narrative and twisted it in such a way that its meaning is unrecognizable to any Jew.  The focus upon who and what comprises a supreme deity is identical to Idolatry as defined in the Jewish narrative.  There is no shared tradition, no shared language, no shared culture, and certainly no shared peoplehood.

In Judaism the world stands innocent as created and any and all problems with the world are solely due to the choices of mankind.   In Chrisitanity the world is created evil due to the actions of a singe human being and likewise by the actions of a single human being it is somehow redeemed.  Meanwhile there is no demonstrable evidence for any of it. 

Jul 21, 2011 -- 11:33AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

funny that you become so dependent, all of a sudden, on a Christian, nay Catholic source as the Catholic Encyclopedia, for the antiquity of the Apostles' Creed ...

Unlike you, I attribute subjective truth and honesty to the traditions of a people with regard to their own holy texts.

Jul 21, 2011 -- 11:33AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

It is entirely evident that, as you cannot find anything "pagan" about it, you take a detour on the question of its antiquity

As I mentioned previously, Paganism is the foundation of ALL contemporary religions and the desire of your own faith to demonize it is no different than the same desire of your faith to demonize Judaism.   IOW, there is nothing inherently evil about Paganism, and Christianity, as created by Constantine - of which your own faith is a direct descendent - is solidly and demonstrably based upon MANY Pagan rites and beliefs.  Therefore it is a shame when Christians point to Paganism as somehow evil when they, themselves, partake of the exact same rites and beliefs.

Jul 21, 2011 -- 11:33AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

I have repeatedly affirmed here that the original Nicene Creed (325 CE), and, even more so, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (381 CE) is certainly polluted with heathen elements, and in particular with the "trinitarian" doctrine, concocted and perfected by the Cappadocian scoundrels.

Augustine of Hippo a Cappadocian?   I'll just attribute that bit of historical ignorance to your religious prejudice.  And as far as Cappadocians being "scoundrels" - that is a sad personal commentary on the Christian liberal intellectuals of that age.

I, as an outsider to your faith, do not consider the Creed to be "polluted" but an accurate representation of the permitted (upon pain of death) doctrine of the Catholic church during and after the time of Constantine's creation of it.  I do not find evil in it except for the murder of Christians (and non-Christians) during the time of Constantine and afterwards who disagreed with that particular formulation.

Jul 21, 2011 -- 11:33AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

I find it rather amusing that, to expose the paganism of the Nicene (Constantinopolitan) Creed, you resort to a document (Pagan Christian Creeds: Their Origin and Meaning, by Edward Carpenter) hosted by a website (Alternative Religions Educational Network - AREN) that proudly announces: Wiccans will be allowed to place pentacles on graves - WE WON!" ...

Well, they DID.   Wiccans successfully demonstrated that the rites and beliefs of Christianity are directly derived from Pagan sources, a fact not surprising since Constantine himself was a practicing Pagan.  And by demonstrating their own inherent legitimacy as a world "religion" they have earned the right to decorate the graves of their fallen warriors with the symbol of their faith.  The fact they they had to fight for this right is an indictment of the prejudice and mindless hatred of non-Pagan religions IMHO.

Again, I do not share the desire to distance myself from Paganism as if I were somehow superior to a Pagan as you appear to be doing in line with the tenets of your religion.