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Switch to Forum Live View Was Adam 90 feet tall? Really?
3 years ago  ::  May 02, 2011 - 4:58AM #1
Kinky.christian
Posts: 262

OK I have to ask this question.

Do Muslims really truly believe there was a literal Adam who was 90 feet tall?

See:  Was Adam 90 feet (60 cubits) tall?

Narrated Abu Huraira:  The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation.  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543)"



If you answer in the affirmative I hope you have a thorough understanding of physics.

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3 years ago  ::  May 02, 2011 - 9:37AM #2
visio
Posts: 3,322

You may read it as a literal Adam.   Muslims don't.   In the context of creation, it indicates the Light of Creation (spiritual) of an Adam or an Eve.   And this Light of Creation ain't got nothing to do with your physicsit  and I would even say it causes your physics.  In the context of the quoted hadith the late prophet could have been referring to any one of the following 2 of the three elements - Adam, the jinn/spirit of an Adam, Adam, the soul of an Adam which are bigger, consciousness-wise than the body of an Adam or Eve.      

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3 years ago  ::  May 02, 2011 - 11:10AM #3
Al-Fatihah
Posts: 1,347

May 2, 2011 -- 4:58AM, Kinky.christian wrote:


OK I have to ask this question.

Do Muslims really truly believe there was a literal Adam who was 90 feet tall?

See:  Was Adam 90 feet (60 cubits) tall?

Narrated Abu Huraira:  The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation.  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543)"



If you answer in the affirmative I hope you have a thorough understanding of physics.




 


Response: Adam was 90 feet tall and humankind has decreased in size since the time of Adam. None of which goes against physics. Giants are even spoken of as existing in your very own bible and there are many archaeological discoveries to confirm the existence of giants.

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3 years ago  ::  May 02, 2011 - 6:16PM #4
Kinky.christian
Posts: 262

Two answers from two Muslims. Trouble is they contradict each other.


So what do most Muslims actually believe?


In the past few weeks I have been boning up on Islam. When a friend pointed me at the 90 foot Adam I thought it was a hoax. I couldn't believe anyone could take something like this literally.


When he convinced me it wasn't a hoax I showed it to my colleagues in the life sciences department. I then had a hard time convincing them it wasn't a hoax!


LOL,


Do you understand how hilarious this is for a biologist?


 


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  May 02, 2011 - 7:04PM #5
Al-Fatihah
Posts: 1,347

May 2, 2011 -- 6:16PM, Kinky.christian wrote:


Two answers from two Muslims. Trouble is they contradict each other.


So what do most Muslims actually believe?


In the past few weeks I have been boning up on Islam. When a friend pointed me at the 90 foot Adam I thought it was a hoax. I couldn't believe anyone could take something like this literally.


When he convinced me it wasn't a hoax I showed it to my colleagues in the life sciences department. I then had a hard time convincing them it wasn't a hoax!


LOL,


Do you understand how hilarious this is for a biologist?


 


Response: Or rather, do you understand that a biologist's knowledge doesn't come close to Allah, thus the laugh is on you and the biologist?


 


 


 





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3 years ago  ::  May 02, 2011 - 9:52PM #6
IDBC
Posts: 4,516

Howdy Visio


May 2, 2011 -- 9:37AM, visio wrote:


You may read it as a literal Adam.   Muslims don't. 



You may read it


 " In the context of creation, it indicates the Light of Creation (spiritual) of an Adam or an Eve.   And this Light of Creation ain't got nothing to do with your physicsit  and I would even say it causes your physics.  In the context of the quoted hadith the late prophet could have been referring to any one of the following 2 of the three elements - Adam, the jinn/spirit of an Adam, Adam, the soul of an Adam which are bigger, consciousness-wise than the body of an Adam or Eve. "    


   But clearly Al-Faithah does read it literally and he is a Muslim.  So to claim that Muslims do not take it literally is clearly false.   The ahadith quoted clearly states that Allah created Adam 60 cubits.   I think more Muslims would take the ahadith as Al does than you do.  


And as Al has stated even the Bible says there were giants.   Goliath was a giant.  But so far as I know neither the Bible nor the Quran gives the height of either Adam or Eve. 


And so far as I there is no physical evidence no human bones that have been discovered of human beings being close to 90 feet tall.


 




 

HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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3 years ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 12:37AM #7
BDboy
Posts: 5,659

May 2, 2011 -- 6:16PM, Kinky.christian wrote:


Two answers from two Muslims. Trouble is they contradict each other.


So what do most Muslims actually believe?


In the past few weeks I have been boning up on Islam. When a friend pointed me at the 90 foot Adam I thought it was a hoax. I couldn't believe anyone could take something like this literally.


When he convinced me it wasn't a hoax I showed it to my colleagues in the life sciences department. I then had a hard time convincing them it wasn't a hoax!


LOL,


Do you understand how hilarious this is for a biologist?


 


 




 


>>>>>>> Yeah it is amusing. :-D


 


Only problem with the whole topic is no one can argue about it. No one was there with Adam to write a "Peer review" to confirm it for you.


I NEVER heard any Muslim worry about it. We discuss character of our father Adam but his height probably was issue for Eve (His wife), So I'll leave it there. As long Eve was happy with his appearence, it is all cool deal for me.


The story of Adam is a great spiritual story of sin and God's mercy for us.


 




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3 years ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 3:09AM #8
Namchuck
Posts: 11,661

May 2, 2011 -- 11:10AM, Al-Fatihah wrote:


May 2, 2011 -- 4:58AM, Kinky.christian wrote:


OK I have to ask this question.

Do Muslims really truly believe there was a literal Adam who was 90 feet tall?

See:  Was Adam 90 feet (60 cubits) tall?

Narrated Abu Huraira:  The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation.  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543)"



If you answer in the affirmative I hope you have a thorough understanding of physics.




 


Response: Adam was 90 feet tall and humankind has decreased in size since the time of Adam. None of which goes against physics. Giants are even spoken of as existing in your very own bible and there are many archaeological discoveries to confirm the existence of giants.




 


You're kidding, right?


So, mankind reducing in size from an average of 90 feet tall to an average of 6 feet tall over a period of 6,000 years doesn't go against physics, huh? Would it possibly go against the data from human fossil and anatomical evidence, or even commonsense for that matter?


Now, please tell me where I can check out the archaeological data that, according to you, backs up such an outlandish claim? I try to keep up with all the latest findings and read all the archaeological journals, but I've never come across anything like this. Maybe the discovery of giant human skeletal remains wasn't significant enough to warrant a mention?


I think what we have here is an example of how, in the world of faith and unreason, explanations must always remain subservient to the elaborate assumptions of silly apriori beliefs.

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3 years ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 3:24AM #9
Namchuck
Posts: 11,661

May 3, 2011 -- 12:37AM, BDboy wrote:


May 2, 2011 -- 6:16PM, Kinky.christian wrote:


Two answers from two Muslims. Trouble is they contradict each other.


So what do most Muslims actually believe?


In the past few weeks I have been boning up on Islam. When a friend pointed me at the 90 foot Adam I thought it was a hoax. I couldn't believe anyone could take something like this literally.


When he convinced me it wasn't a hoax I showed it to my colleagues in the life sciences department. I then had a hard time convincing them it wasn't a hoax!


LOL,


Do you understand how hilarious this is for a biologist?


 


 




 


>>>>>>> Yeah it is amusing. :-D


 


Only problem with the whole topic is no one can argue about it. No one was there with Adam to write a "Peer review" to confirm it for you.




I NEVER heard any Muslim worry about it. We discuss character of our father Adam but his height probably was issue for Eve (His wife), So I'll leave it there. As long Eve was happy with his appearence, it is all cool deal for me.


The story of Adam is a great spiritual story of sin and God's mercy for us.


 







Of course one can argue against it, and one can do so on very compelling grounds. Haven't you heard of forensic science? One doesn't have to be at the scene of a crime to figure out who perpetrated it. And 90 foot human beings are likely to have left some clues in their skeletal remains, don't you think? Has anyone found a human molar the size of an elephant's tusk, or perhaps a homo sapien femur that would compare with that of a brontosaur?


And perhaps Muslims should worry about it. If we can dismiss one hairbrained claim, why not others that come from the same source? Islam could probably do with some demythologizing. 


I would agree with you, though, that it's a great story, but only a story after all. I prefer the tales in the 'Odyssey' myself.

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3 years ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 8:53AM #10
visio
Posts: 3,322

[/quote]


..............  I am not talking of any one particular Adam born X billion years ago.  I am talking about the 70,000 Adam & Eves who are queing in a constantly changing batches at the gate for their final return to ALLAH's Kingdom.   This what Muhammadsaw had said in the detailed account of his Ascension (Mi'raj) in one of his authentic hadith.[/quote]


P.S.  


For every 70,000 continously returning lights of angels, they are replaced continously  with 70,000 Lights of Creation (Adam & Eves).   This is an ever ongoing process. In the context of this, I don't say Adam was 90 feet tall.  I would say Adam is bigger than the sun and the moon add together.   I wouldn't argue so much about the quantitative number in the hadith, the essence in the whole contact is the Divine sense desire of DYNAMIC BALANCE (in all creation and manifestation) to strike at our individual human sense of proportion.  And in the Trinity of Man, the soul is always bigger than the spirit/mind and body.   Both of the latter are what we inherit from the remnants of the (descending) lights of an Adam and an Eve (thru various evolutionary processes).  The rescuing souls don't come from the lights of Adam and Eve.   They come from the latter lights of Adam and Eve which, in the Al-Quranic cosmology, are referred to (ascending) the lights of the Prophets or Nabi (navvis). 

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