Apr 3, 2011 -- 8:24PM, realif wrote:

As a child I did not receive any teaching at home about any religion.  What information I received I got from singing in a choir in school which was at a time when you could sing about religious holidays in school.  My questions were honest, can you please enlighten me as to why they're so insulting to you.  If people have a right to be pagen, and christian and muslim, why don't I have a right to be Messianic Jew.  Your opinion, which is basically all you claim here is you don't like Messianic Jews, because in your opinion Jews don't believe in Yeshua, but thats only your opinion.

My mother was a Jew, my father was Christian, if you were me what would you believe?

I've spoken on this on more than one thread here, realif, and never got a response from it. I wonder why?

I'll go through it again.... I was married to a Jewish girl in the early 70s for close to ten years. It was a mixed marriage.... At the time, I was Catholic, although not an observant one. My late wife did not keep a Kosher home, (and actually wasn't raised in one), but did attend regular services. I learned that Jewish custom dictated that in cases such as ours, it was generally considered the father's name, and the mother's religion. IOW, any children would have been raised under Judaism. Had it been the other way around, the children would have been raised according to which ever belief the mother held.

I can't fathom for one millisecond a Jewish woman who underwent what you claim your mother did and not insist on raising you Jewish. That simply will not register; what with what little I actually know about the religion. And moreover,  I can't accept what you seem to be saying about a woman who went through the ordeal you claim who would marry a man outside her religion that would object to her being observant of her religion. Nothing you say, or have said has the ring of truth to it.

You might could have used this excuse as a child too young to venture out on your own to seek out a synagogue and find a Rabbi that could answer your questions; but I imagine it wouldn't have been too difficult once you entered your teens. Most certainly, you could have sought one out as a young adult. I imagine that by becoming what you call a Messianic Jew, you feel you are in some way paying homage to your mother (if the story you claim is true), but are still wanting to stay well within your Christian comfort zone. The excuse you give us here is far fetched at best.

River, I served in the military with some guys who were Jewish, and learned a smattering from them over the years, but the only real interaction I ever had that was of any consequence was with my late wife and her family. Being a Goya to my mother-in-law, I was useful for heavy lifting and other menial labor, but not much more. But through my father-in-law, sister-in-law, and a few uncles, I got a little education. What I did get doesn't jibe with anything realif has said so far. My ex in-laws weren't big on observing the religion, and actually never celebrated the holy days in the manner my late wife and her sister did. In fact, when my sister-in-law married an Orthodox Jew, she didn't know how to set up a Kosher home, and had to rely on her mother-in-law for assistance.... her own mother never had one and was less than generous about sister-in-law doing so. I was privy to a lot of back and forth conversations between wife, sister and wife and mother. You can learn a helluva lot by just sitting back, watching and listening. It was a great time for me..... you'd have to have been there.

All in all, in just a few short days, I've come to take what realif has to say with a grain of salt. It just don't mesh with what I know and understand to be true.

River, I think the point of claiming that swill was from Fordham's site was just the overflow of underlying anti-Catholic bigotry.   Like the reference to the 'Judaism 101' site as being the purported 'source' of some unspecified misinformation was a result of the anti-semitism that seethes just under the surface.....

Apr 8, 2011 -- 2:04PM, river8101 wrote:

You're right, but you're an intelligent person.

I'd argue intelligent, unless listening to those who actually know what they're talking about, and paying heed to what I hear constitutes intelligence.

Apr 8, 2011 -- 2:04PM, river8101 wrote:

Others who read here, and those who may not even post, do believe her and other lies on the internet.  They don't look up the authors or the books where some of this stuff comes from.  I can assure you of that.

Some people are just plain lazy; others are comfortable in believing something their religious instructors have taught them. Actually, when the truth comes out on many of the Protestant ministers giving out information on things like Judaism or Paganism, for example, have only a degree from a bible collage and never really took any in depth study in things like comparative religion. In the case of the Catholic Church, although what they put out, as with any educated religious scholar from a Christian back ground... well, they will slant their work in favor of Christianity.... But they can site historical records, of what little is left after the heretical book burnings in the early church, and give a point of reference to go on. I'm not taking up for the RCC, but it's easier to pin point an error much better when you have references other than "Cuz the bible said so" to work with.

Apr 8, 2011 -- 2:04PM, river8101 wrote:

Like her Fordham University shpiel. Fordham U. related what happend to the Jews, and what Christians said about the Jews or did to them, but not that there was any truth to the accusations  Christians made about them.  Quite the opposite That is clear.  Fordham U. is a good college and they would never write lies about history.  Of course Realif never bothered to check it out properly.

One must remember that history is always written by the victors. In the case of Christianity, once it got the political power it craved from the Roman Empire, it made sure that the only history available was filtered through them. With modern technology and new discoveries made daily in the area of religious history, there are new facts coming out almost daily that refutes some of the old writings that was all people had to go by in years past. A lot of the information is so radical that it has the possibility of changing the whole face and scope of religion. When this happens the outcries are immediate in trying to debunk it.  

Apr 8, 2011 -- 2:04PM, river8101 wrote:

I've been in the middle of it, growing up among Christians, and it was no easy thing to do for me or my parents.  I met people who thought like realif.   It was tough to be a Jew in a Christian neighborhood.   Ya had to be there.  See, many Christians don't realize that, because they're not Jewish and never experienced it.   But I know what I know.  And that's why someone get's away with writing that kind of stuff on many forums here except the Jewish forum.  Or the internet, writes stuff, that is not signed or followed up with any acceptable scholarship.

We had one or two Jewish kids in school when I was a kid growing up.... Not that many though here in Catholic dominated Louisiana. I remember in the 6th grade a couple of kids in my class got in trouble close to Christmas time for not singing carols with the rest of the class. Our teacher didn't take religious differences into consideration, and the result was that there were visits from some angry Jewish mothers visiting the teacher. I didn't really appreciate it then; kids aren't noted for being the most understanding creatures in the world when there are a minority of kids who are in some way "different" than the norm. With my more mature outlook on this situation, I think I'd like to have been a fly on the wall listening in on the conversation.

It's OK - Just say two Oy Veys, drink a glass of Lafitte-Rothschild and post here in the morning.....  : ))