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4 years ago  ::  Jan 20, 2011 - 1:17AM #21
MrBear
Posts: 426

Because it is perfectly clear and demonstrated yet again in the preceeding post that the Justice issues within the Baha'i community and the behavioural issues displayed by Baha'is are >NEVER< going to be acknowledged, discussed or considered...


This is for the benifit of the passing non Baha'i  


 


Jan 19, 2011 -- 11:48PM, Aka_me wrote:


Jan 19, 2011 -- 11:40PM, MrBear wrote:

Go for it Aka-me....let non Baha'i folk see >exactly< what they can expect and experience inside the Baha'i community.


It's a real winning strategy.



if you can demonstrate how "presenting issues people have had with the Faith"




My primary issue, concern and "presentation" is in regard >specific and repeatedly identified behaviour<, abusive behaviour, slandering, falsifying, lying, forging, ignoring, obfuscating, evading, fabricating, forging, falsely accusing >nasty< behaviour. Central to this concern is that whenever it is articulated and evidence/substantiation is provided Baha'is ignore it and refuse to respond to it.


Just as the author of the preceeding post has done, yet again.


The vast majority of what I have presented deals specificaly with such demonstrable  abusive behaviour conducted by members of the Baha'i community- >NOT< " the Faith"- The founder, the central figures, the writings.......>despite< the worst efforts of some to forge and falsify "attacks on Baha'u'llah".


Such are blatant lies.


 


Jan 19, 2011 -- 11:48PM, Aka_me wrote:


is a unifying action...



I am not interested in what the author considers to be a "unifying action" or a divisive action.


The author cannot even consider or distinguish between criticisms of specific Baha'i behaviour and "attacks on Baha'u'llah. In circumstances of clear, deliberate and ongoing falsification of the others pov...further attempts at dialogue are pointless.




Jan 19, 2011 -- 11:48PM, Aka_me wrote:


1. planting seeds of doubt in the believers.




If "doubt" is generated in the minds of "the believers" by raising concerns about abusive behaviour and the tollerance of abuse then the solution is to adress the behaviours not fabricate the intent of those raising the concer.


Jan 19, 2011 -- 11:48PM, Aka_me wrote:


2. fear mongering the seekers to stay away.



Likewise...When the abusive behaviours and tollerance thereof have been established and verified no sane seeker would be "fearful" of the discussion thereof....only righly fearful of encountering such behaviours and fully justified in "staying away" from such contempt for Justice issues.


Jan 19, 2011 -- 11:48PM, Aka_me wrote:


3. providing fodder for those intentionally attacking the Faith.



Likewise. If there is "fodder for those intentionally attacking the Faith" to be found then it is to be found in the identified abusive behaviours, the lies, the slander, the falsification- including and by perfect example the falsehood- "attacking Baha'u'llah"...no "fodder" is provided in identifying such issues....only in being the exemplar of them.


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 20, 2011 - 2:36PM #22
Sirronrex
Posts: 2,675

Jan 20, 2011 -- 1:04PM, Aka_me wrote:

if there were an honest effort to work from within the system



We see how well that worked out for the pedophile priests in the Catholic church.


There is nothing of honesty when one hides his affairs behind the cloak of religion.


 


however, making a point of communicating in the same place where the non-member attackers congregate, and the curious seekers might drop in...



YOU have been the best deterrant in this forum for anyone considering the Baha'i faith.


The fact you refuse to answer questions directed specifcially towards you and refuse to acknowledge the clear issues apparent and prominent within the Baha'i religion speaks volumes about your religion and it's ineffectiveness in making positive change in YOUR life. Until you can be honest about the issues and can address the pertinent questions posed to you, your continued howls of attacks on Bah'u'llah will continue to be seen as the giant billboards telling people the Baha'i faith is no different from the rest. It gives people a feeling of positive change...but does little, if anything, to actually create change...much less unity.


 


 


the actions are producing results in the direction of destroying the Faith.



Like Christianity, Baha'i is plagued with the one thing all religions are plagued with...people.


Like Christianity, the only thing destroying the Baha'i faith are the people within it.


 


just be prepared to explain the results to Baha'u'llah one day.




Why? Is he going to banish me to eternal damnation in hell because of the results? Gee, how creative and novel. Maybe we could stick his effigy on a wooden cross to remind everyone to be afraid...though I believe there is another religion that uses another dead guy for such fear mongering.

I've been on a journey to nowhere...
and know that's the best place to be...
now...here...




If my faith isn't leading me inward, then my faith is leading me astray.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 20, 2011 - 9:21PM #23
MrBear
Posts: 426

Jan 20, 2011 -- 2:36PM, Sirronrex wrote:


Jan 20, 2011 -- 1:04PM, Aka_me wrote:

if there were an honest effort to work from within the system



We see how well that worked out for the pedophile priests in the Catholic church.




Ahhhhhhh Sirronrex! 


 What your missing here is the profound depth of Baha'i spiritual insight! Any Catholic who leaves the church because of pedophile priest activity and the subsequent church cover up is "wether he knows it or not" displaying "issues with God and His Manefestation". Leaving the church because of child mollestation and cover up (even if you are a victim thereof) exposes your lack of faith and understanding...it's not a "faulted human/faulted Institution issue"...it is a "God, Mannefestation, Faith" issue.


So runs the Baha'i appologetics to ignore the abuses within the Baha'i community and lay blame/responsibility at the feet of those who leave the community because of the abuse- they had "issues with God and Baha'u'llah"


Jan 20, 2011 -- 2:36PM, Sirronrex wrote:

There is nothing of honesty when one hides his affairs behind the cloak of religion.



Once more dear Sirronrex I am compelled to explain and enlighten- The "religion" is "Holy" and "Sacred"......>NOT< the individual/community- or the rights of the individual/community- or the interests or protection of the individual/community-or justice for the individual/community....


The "cloak" worn by Baha'is is the 'Holy' and 'Sacred' cloak of 'religion'...>not< their deeds and duties towards any individual,community or mere principle. Like Catholics...the 'church' is far more sacred than justice for or protection of some mere child. 


 


however, making a point of communicating in the same place where the non-member attackers congregate, and the curious seekers might drop in...[/quote]


Jan 20, 2011 -- 2:36PM, Sirronrex wrote:

YOU have been the best deterrant in this forum for anyone considering the Baha'i faith.


The fact you refuse to answer questions directed specifcially towards you and refuse to acknowledge the clear issues apparent and prominent within the Baha'i religion speaks volumes about your religion and it's ineffectiveness in making positive change in YOUR life. Until you can be honest about the issues and can address the pertinent questions posed to you, your continued howls of attacks on Bah'u'llah will continue to be seen as the giant billboards telling people the Baha'i faith is no different from the rest. It gives people a feeling of positive change...but does little, if anything, to actually create change...much less unity..




Thank you for providing 'Quote of the Day' and 'Quote of the Decade'.


 And thank you, most sincerely, for having the basic manners and common decency to notice what is going on and comment upon it.


I have been trying to get Baha’is (online and off) to stand on principle and perform that basic act of common justice for over two decades...to no avail. (Insanity....Repeating the same fruitless act and expecting a different outcome;-)


Sadly Baha'is believe there is something spiritual about being detatched, aloof and tollerant towards intollerably bad behaviour and abuse.


 Again my thanks...such acknoledgement of and comment upon what is going on means a great deal to me. 

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2011 - 2:56PM #24
world citizen
Posts: 5,459

"Unity" is not the sole consideration or central core of Baha'u'llahs faith...


It's accurate to say that "unity" isn't the sole consideration of the Baha'i Faith, but it's inaccurate to espouse that it isn't the "central core" of Baha'u'llah's teachings:

Of such cardinal importance is this principle of unity that it is expressly referred to in the Book of His Covenant, and He [Baha'u'llah] unreservedly proclaims it as the central purpose of His Faith.  "We, verily," He declares, "have come to unite and weld together all that dwell on earth." "So potent is the light of unity," He further states, "that it can illuminate the whole earth." "At one time," He has written with reference to this central theme of His Revelation, "We spoke in the language of the lawgiver; at another in that of the truth seeker and the mystic, and yet Our supreme purpose and highest wish hath always been to disclose the glory and sublimity of this station."  Unity, He states, is the goal that "excelleth every goal" and an aspiration which is "the monarch of all aspirations."  (~Shoghi Effendi, "God Passes By," p. 217)

Nothing can be effected in the world, not even conceivably, without unity and agreement ...  (~Abdu'l-Baha, "The Secret of Divine Civilization, ' p. 73)

Strive ye by day and night to cultivate your unity to the fullest degree.  Let your thoughts dwell on your own spiritual development, and close your eyes to the deficiencies of other souls.  ("Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha,") p. 203

... A unity that is truly unshakable, a consecration to their task which no trial or test can impair, a resolve that no force, however inimical, can shake, a united and systematic endeavour to proclaim and firmly establish their Faith which enemies neither from within nor from without can undermine -- all these are vitally required to enable them to achieve their high destiny.  (~Shoghi Effendi, "Dawn of a New Day," p. 113)

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2011 - 8:05PM #25
MrBear
Posts: 426

Jan 25, 2011 -- 2:56PM, world citizen wrote:


"Unity" is not the sole consideration or central core of Baha'u'llahs faith...


It's accurate to say that "unity" isn't the sole consideration of the Baha'i Faith, but it's inaccurate to espouse that it isn't the "central core" of Baha'u'llah's teachings:






OH!....The first of two >unattributed< and >uncited< 'quotes' ...just the kind of thing >one other person< gets locked and admonished for-


#8, Locked: Baha’i Ethnic “cleansing”?



“Your opening post included a link that wasn't cited for whom or where the quote/link came from.  It can't be assumed that Beliefnet members have photographic memories of previous posts in other threads/boards; nor should members be unreasonably expected to cross-reference everything that gets posted across threads/boards.  Regardless, it doesn't matter who might have elsewhere introduced ANY link if it appears in the opening post, because there IS NO CONTEXT when nothing in the thread precedes it.World Citizen, moderator
Beliefnet Baha'i Faith forum”



Gee.....” It can't be assumed that Beliefnet members have photographic memories of previous posts”....and we can't have "NO CONTEXT".....so lets go back and see what was being said >before< it was ripped out of context and re presented without cite/ attribution-


#20, Mr Bear-"Unity" is not the sole consideration or central core of Baha'u'llahs faith...it is not possible, prudent, wise, spiritual, faithful or just to sacrifice >Justice< The Best Beloved of All Things in His Sight on the altar of 'Unity'.


>You< and >You< alone have sought to falsely  portray >each and every issue raised< as an "attack on Baha'u'llah" and seeking to "tear down Baha'u'llah's desired intention of unity"


 Those forged and falsified positions and intents >created by you< and projected on me despite repeated disclaimer and rejection are the reason you have been deemed unworthy of any further attempt to communicate with.


Now, out of pure spite, you continue to attempt to foist such fabrication upon me at every given opportunity.”


Well golly gee...in context the quote >isn’t< about “unity” or the red herring diversionary gambit of trying to work out if the quoted principle is being applied to THE ESSENTIAL/CORE UNITY OF ALL HUMANITY or the  ‘unity’ of Baha’is- a unity sought by sacrificing justice.


Cited and in context the quote is ALL ABOUT trying to maintain 'unity' by sacrificing 'justice'... the quote is ALL ABOUT >ignoring< one principle completely in the effort to maintain another...


Now how could anyone ignore and omit that obvious fact....unless they really/desperately wanted to and sought "to divert to secondary and totally peripheral and irrelevant side-issue" ?


The Baha'i Technique.


3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary and totally peripheral and irrelevant side-issues


You have the power to censor and ‘Lock’ a thread because it “wasn't cited for whom or where the quote/link came from” and “, because there IS NO CONTEXT”


Then you rip a an uncited quote from context, ignore entirely what the post/issue was about just as you have ignored the slander and  forgeries that prompted the post in the first place.


Now, having once more exposed the falsification, prejudice and  hypocrisy you will no doubt return, as you have done on every previous occasion to default mode-


The Baha'i Technique.


 1.      As far as possible they hold back from responding


 


#19 “And I will continue to answer your points questions concerns, and you will continue to ignore mine, and Baha’is will continue to turn a blind tolerant aloof eye......and pretend they have something loving/spiritual going on.”


 


 

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