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Switch to Forum Live View Jewish concept of the Holy Spirit
7 years ago  ::  Nov 27, 2010 - 9:44PM #11
Bunsinspace
Posts: 5,932

BS"D


Ed2,


I like Howie's description.  Mine is less emotional and more technical - just as the wind is acknowledged by what is observed to be moved by it, so do I acknowledge the Spirit of the Divine when I see a Jew choosing to do a mitzvo or a non-Jew choosing to do good instead of harm (which is the same thing across the cultural divide.)  BTW, the "wind" metaphor is what the "Bible" uses for the word "spirit" in this case, just like kami-kaze in Japanese.  I won't get into the tongues of fire thing as that is exclusively a Christian, vice Jewish simile.

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7 years ago  ::  Nov 27, 2010 - 11:31PM #12
Pam34
Posts: 2,795

I wonder, actually, if there is a connection there with the Jewish concept of Torah existing prior to creation, as the blueprint for creation, and as letters of black fire on white fire - with the general connection of 'fire, light' with 'enlightenment, intelligence, purpose' especially divine purpose - with the idea of flame/divinity....


 


I mean, that correlation is present generally throughout the ancient Middle East and Greek/Roman philosophy, after all.


 


 


As for personal connections - I tend to the skeptical, and approach the kabbalistic narrative with a degree of reserve. From my POV, 'the holy spirit' is an attribute of the One Holy and Unique God Whose Name we do not speak. Any personal relationship I might or might not have experienced is exactly that: personal. I cannot claim that my experience(s) have any reality beyond my own inner life, nor can I claim that my experience(s) (if any) have any bearing on the experiences of any other person or persons.


 


 

Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 28, 2010 - 2:59AM #13
Bunsinspace
Posts: 5,932

Nov 27, 2010 -- 11:31PM, Pam34 wrote:


I wonder, actually, if there is a connection there with the Jewish concept of Torah existing prior to creation, as the blueprint for creation, and as letters of black fire on white fire - with the general connection of 'fire, light' with 'enlightenment, intelligence, purpose' especially divine purpose - with the idea of flame/divinity....


 




BS"D


I have an unusual personal opinion on that one.  That it is a didactic tool for the straight-forward Jewish pedagogical method of teaching Torah to construct a Jewish mental perspective on the universe - essentially before Creation is a complete notion in one's mind - that perspective being, simply put, that all things in Creation are ultimately comprehensible except for the divine.   The virtual canvas of the ink and the spacing of the letters (the word parsing according to either Mesorah or Casuistry) in Torah being incorporated into the virtual circuitry of the mind in an artistic fashion.  To me the building (and maintenance) of the world of the Jewish people is based upon Torah as the blueprint.


 

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7 years ago  ::  Nov 28, 2010 - 9:20AM #14
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

 


Nov 27, 2010 -- 9:44PM, Bunsinspace wrote:


 just as the wind is acknowledged by what is observed to be moved by it, so do I acknowledge the Spirit of the Divine when I see a Jew choosing to do a mitzvo or a non-Jew choosing to do good instead of harm (which is the same thing across the cultural divide.)  



That's what I was getting at.


The "Holy Spirit" or the "spirit of God" or whatever-you-want to call it is the life-giver and sanctifier. 


Every breath we take is due to the "Holy Spirit." Every time we choose an action that tends to create good and/or combat evil we bring into the world a quantum of God's unity and holiness and that is the "Holy Spirit" at work. 

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7 years ago  ::  Nov 28, 2010 - 10:18AM #15
NahumS
Posts: 1,868

From a cursory glance, I don't think that the term Ruah HaKodesh appears in the Hebrew Bible. I couldn't find it in the Concordance. Ruah E-lokim - Ruah HaShem, do appear.


The latter two refer to G-d's power and might - sometimes manifesting itself upon a human being who fulfills a divine mission, giving him strength or wisdom.


Ruah HaKodesh is an expression found in later rabbinical sources. It usually refers ot a type of prophecy or divine inspiration, emanating from G-d.

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7 years ago  ::  Nov 28, 2010 - 4:23PM #16
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

Nahum,


Do you think there is a distinction between "ruach Elohim" or "ruach Hashem" on the one hand and the "ruchi" in Genesis 6:3 on the other? "My spirit shall not abide in the human being forever...a human's lifespan shall be 120 years?"


Is the "spirit" that comes over people like Moses and the Prophets something qualitatively different from the "spirit" that animates all life, or do these exception people just get an extra dose when they need it (sort of like we're supposed to enjoy on Shabbat according to some)?

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7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2010 - 4:34AM #17
NahumS
Posts: 1,868

Nov 28, 2010 -- 4:23PM, nieciedo wrote:


Nahum,


Do you think there is a distinction between "ruach Elohim" or "ruach Hashem" on the one hand and the "ruchi" in Genesis 6:3 on the other? "My spirit shall not abide in the human being forever...a human's lifespan shall be 120 years?"


Is the "spirit" that comes over people like Moses and the Prophets something qualitatively different from the "spirit" that animates all life, or do these exception people just get an extra dose when they need it (sort of like we're supposed to enjoy on Shabbat according to some)?





Dan -


There's probably no precise distinction. The Ruah described in Genesis 6:3 is probably a G-dly life force, something general and not individual. The "extra dose" that you note seems correct. On the other hand, the manifestation seems different when applied to the individual - it doesn't only make them more alive - but gives them special capabilities - and sometimes wisdom or prophecy.


The Neshama Yetara is on a different level altogether. It's a special spiritual sensitivity - and I'm sure you saw in Dor-Shav's article the difference between the different types of soul - nefesh, ruah and neshama. The idea of the Neshama Yetera (extra soul that a Jew is granted on the Sabbath) comes from the verse in Genesis that tells us that on the 7th day, G-d ceased creating and was "refreshed" (VaYinafash). Our rabbis noted the anthropromorphisism here and commented that the word derives from "Vay! Avda nefesh! - "woe! A soul is lost." This, they said, is the"extra soul" present throughout the Sabbath, that departs at its close. In short - a beautiful rabbinic notion, rather than the simple meaning of the Biblical text. That's the origin, I believe, of smelling spices when reciting Havdalah - the blessing with which we conclude the Sabbath. Like providing the "extra soul" with "one for the road".

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7 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2011 - 6:05PM #18
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808

Nov 27, 2010 -- 6:50AM, Ed2 wrote:


Hello. I have another question for this forum: What is the Jewish concept of the Holy Spirit?


On one website it says that: Jews don't teach about "the Holy Spirit" as an entity.


www.answerbag.com/q_view/174196


And then at jewishencyclopedia.com, it give a more detailed and more technical explanation of what the Jewish concept of the Holy Spirit, however, there were some Hebrew words and some explanation that I didn't quite understand:


www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?arti...


But if any one here could give me their explanation of the Jewish concept of the Holy Spirit, I would appreciate it.




The Holy Spirit is God Himself. Jesus himself declared that God is a Spirit. (John 4:24) And according to Moses Maimonides, He is Incorporeal and absolutely destitute of human attributes.

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7 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2011 - 6:59PM #19
Pam34
Posts: 2,795

We don't actually use anything Jesus had to say as something authoritative for Judaism. Some of what he said is within standard Judaic traditions but some isn't. Always assuming he actually said everything he's purportedly quoted as saying.


 


 

Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2011 - 1:37PM #20
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808

Jan 7, 2011 -- 6:59PM, Pam34 wrote:


We don't actually use anything Jesus had to say as something authoritative for Judaism. Some of what he said is within standard Judaic traditions but some isn't. Always assuming he actually said everything he's purportedly quoted as saying.




You are right about the statement, "Always assuming he actually said everything he's purportedy quoted as saying." That's where I dwell with my saying that only 20 percent of what he said is true. The rest is made up of anti-Jewish interpolations and pious forgeries.

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