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Switch to Forum Live View Why does Allah not like South Americans ?
4 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2010 - 8:36AM #1
turner_chris1
Posts: 260

Just to start -  do we all agree that -


1) Islam was essentially unknown in South America/Mexico between 650 AD and say the 1500's when the Spanish/Portuguese brought African slaves over, and even then, they were forced to become Catholic christians.


2) That the religons of the Inca and Aztecs and other civilisations in South America were not based on the Koran.  (perhaps there is a line in the Koran about tearing the heart from the beating body with a sharp stone and kicking the body down the pyramid to be eaten by the warriors of your tribe whcih I havent noticed Smile.)


3) That the following verses from the Koran are an accurate translation of the arabic


35.24 Surely We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and a warner; and there is not a people but a warner has gone among them.
[35.25] And if they call you a liar, so did those before them indeed call (their apostles) liars; their apostles had come to them with clear arguments, and with scriptures, and with the illuminating book.


So why, if every people has been sent a warner, were the South Americans sent a rubbish one, a not convincing one, one they didn't believe or trust?


Why did the Arabs get the best one ever, but the Aztecs only got a grade three reject?


Why didn't the Aztecs and Inca need to know anything about the Koran for over a thousand years?


Why didn't Allah love the Astecs and Inca* like he loves the Arabs?


(*Or the ancient British, Irish,  Russians, Chinese, Australians, Sioux, Cherochee, Inuits, Vikings, Indians, Ceylonese, Burmese, Hottentot, Pigmy, Tibetens...............)

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2010 - 1:27PM #2
BDboy
Posts: 5,427

turner we can agree to part of your preface but all of it. You have distorted some religious facts about native Americans and Islam.


However your asked a good question. Muslims ruled southern Europe for around 800 years but did not force religion unto local population ( Unlike Christians of Europe). So Spanish speaking world knew about Islamic faith. Besides many Africans were forced into slavery and good portion of them were Muslims. Unfortunately in the name of religion allmost all of them were forcefully perverted converted into Christianity. It is safe to assume that, south Americans and Hispanics heard of Islam but Islam was not formally introduced to them.


Qur'an is clear about this. It says Allah(SWT) send messengers and warners to every nations and tribes. But only few names were mentioned in the Qur'an (Part of wisdom of God!).


However interfaith scholars are discovering exciting information confirming what Qur'an told us many years ago. It shows prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and core messages of Islam was mentioned in all major religious scriptures. We had a discussion on this topic here. Click here for details.


Now a days our south American and hispanic brothers and sisters are learning about Islam and joining Islam. Here are some related information.


Muslims are also respinsible for not working to information south American about Islam. However 21st century we live in a global community and people are learning and embracing Islam from all over the world.


Islam in Argentina


Hispanic Muslim Women Busy Teaching Islam 


HispanicMuslims.com


Popular questions about Islam


Yusuf Estes


 

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 30, 2010 - 8:16AM #3
turner_chris1
Posts: 260

was a warner sent to the Inca and Aztecs ? 


Was he/she any good (at warning) ?


 


Blaming 6/7/8/9th century arabs for not inventing safe reliable transatlantic and transpacific  transport systems is abit silly.


Your link doesn't discuss this subject it avoids it.  Finding sayings or teachings in other religions which say we should all generally be nice to each other and saying this means that they all were really secretly muslims is also silly.


The facts are that most people who have ever lived have never heard a word about Islam, read the Koran etc etc.   Why not if its sooo important.


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 30, 2010 - 12:32PM #4
BDboy
Posts: 5,427

 


As I have mentioned, warners and messengers were sent to EVERY nations and tribes. However very few of them were mentioned by name.


I know you are not a fan of Islam or anything Islamic. But we see that, there some values that are universal regardless of their origins. These universal values are codes of conducts given by God. These are similar to "Ten commandments" in the OT. You will find similar instructions in native americans tribes, south asian tribes, African tribes, old european tribes etc.


We had a related discussion few years back in B-net, please take time to read by clicking here.


Shalom.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 30, 2010 - 4:49PM #5
IDBC
Posts: 4,475

Howdy BaDBoy


Sep 30, 2010 -- 12:32PM, BDboy wrote:


 


As I have mentioned, warners and messengers were sent to EVERY nations and tribes. However very few of them were mentioned by name.



Why not?


 You have no historical evidence whatsoever that Muslims were sent to South or North America until well after the 1400's.


Sep 30, 2010 -- 12:32PM, BDboy wrote:

However your asked a good question. Muslims ruled southern Europe for around 800 years but did not force religion unto local population ( Unlike Christians of Europe). So Spanish speaking world knew about Islamic faith.



Muslims CONQUERED BY WAR Southern Europe.  A Religious Minority of Muslims ruled over a majority of population that was Christian against their will.  It was primarily a Christian country BEFORE, DURING and AFTER it conquest by Muslim Imperalist-Occcupiers. 


"It was captured in 711[3] by a Muslim army: in 716 it became a provincial capital, depending from the Caliphate of Damascus; in Arabic it was known as قرطبة (Qurṭuba). "


"On 29 June 1236, after a siege of several months, it was captured by King Ferdinand III of Castile, during the Spanish Reconquista. The city was divided into 14 barrios and numerous new church buildings were added."


So it was around 500 years NOT 800. 


One of the reasons it was reconquered was because of a civil war between rival muslims. For further details


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%B3rdoba,_Spai...


Sep 30, 2010 -- 12:32PM, BDboy wrote:


However interfaith scholars are discovering exciting information confirming what Qur'an told us many years ago. It shows prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and core messages of Islam was mentioned in all major religious scriptures. We had a discussion on this topic here. Click here for details.  



 


I did click the details.   It is  ONLY so-called Muslims scholars who are confirming what the what the Quran said. 


Name the non-muslims interfaith scholars.   


 


 


Sep 30, 2010 -- 12:32PM, BDboy wrote:


 Besides many Africans were forced into slavery and good portion of them were Muslims.



How many Africans were forced into a slavery by Muslims? 


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_slave_trad...


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_slavery


"Historically, the major juristic schools of Islam traditionally accepted the institution of slavery.[1] The Islamic prophet Muhammad and many of his companions bought, sold, freed, and captured slaves."


There is nothing wrong with slavery if you treat slaves one of the family.   Being the slave of a Muslim is better than being a free non-Muslim. 


European powers did not "conquerer" Africa until after the 1880's. 


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Afric...


Well after the slave trade was abolished my Muslims.  Undecided 


 


 


Have A Thinking Day And May Reason Guide You Smile


 

HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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4 years ago  ::  Oct 01, 2010 - 11:31AM #6
Abdullah.
Posts: 882

Hi Chris!


 


this topic has been discussed before; here's the link where you can refresh your memmory Smile:


community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/4...


I'll put it here in a nutshell for you:


a 'nation' is defined as the people to who'm a Messenger is sent, and out of those people, there are those to who'm the Prophetic message reaches, and to who'm it dont; an example of the latter is, after the death of the Prophet Jesus [pbuh], his religion got severely distorted, hence millions? of his people ended up never getting the true message he came with; the people of Jesus [pbuh] were the jews up untill Jesus' [pbuh] advent and right up to the advent of the last Messenger Muhammad [saw]


hence all nations were sent a Messenger, but countless people out of them never recieved the Message they were sent with, due to people distorting the true message, or the Messengers and his followers not being able to access large numbers of people; an example of how this could happen is, the Prophet Muhammad [saw] has been sent to all mankind right upto the day of Judgement, but many a rulers were hostile towards Islam and they stopped the pristine Message of islam from getting to their people; also, allthough now the followers of Muhammad [saw] have the opportunity to take the Message of islam to all the people of the world, yet the majority [including me Embarassed] are not doing so or not doing anywhere near enough to do so Frown

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 04, 2010 - 3:51PM #7
turner_chris1
Posts: 260

like I asked  in my previous  thread -do you get a benefit from hearing ?- are Muslims better off than someone who lived and  died without the opportunity to hear . 


If you dont get an advantage, well why bother going out trying to convert others, (in fact not hearing seemed to be a lot less riskier - skins being burned off everyday etc.?


 


if you do - then why does God give you that advantage, why you and not them, are you more deserving, nicer, special?


either way  it doesn't seem to make


 


 


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 04, 2010 - 3:51PM #8
turner_chris1
Posts: 260

sense!

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2010 - 9:35AM #9
Bezant
Posts: 1,338

Sep 29, 2010 -- 1:27PM, BDboy wrote:


However your asked a good question. Muslims ruled southern Europe for around 800 years but did not force religion unto local population ( Unlike Christians of Europe).




You'll find an example of forced Islamic conversion in Southern Europe with the janissaries, young Christian boys taken from mainly Balkan villages and trained in millitary service to the Ottoman sultan. To ensure their loyalty to the sultan the boys had to convert to Islam. In fact the Bosnian and Herzegovinian tradition of tatooing their children with Christian imagery was a response to the kidnappings, as a protection.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 06, 2010 - 2:46PM #10
BDboy
Posts: 5,427

IDBC,


Every questions you asked here have been answered to you at least 10 times. I have given those answers with sources (To authenticate!) to you. Why do you keep asking to same thing after all these years? Don't you like to read answers or just love asking questions more than anything?


 


Shalom. Wink


 

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