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4 years ago  ::  Jul 30, 2010 - 2:21PM #1
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,713

Carolyn Glick has hit the nail on the head in describing anti-Zionism as "the most endemic" form of contemporary anti-Semitism.


www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article...


or


www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=183073


Column One: See no evil






"Oliver stone joins Thomas, Gibson in ranks of out-of-closet Jew-haters."


. . .


ALL OF this brings us to a  discussion of the most endemic form of contemporary anti-Semitism: Anti-Zionism.  There is no reason for anyone to be surprised that anti-Semites deny that  anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism. After all, they deny that every other form of  anti-Semitism is anti-Semitism. Why should anti-Zionism receive special  treatment? It is self-evident that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.

Zionism  after all is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people. To say that  Jews – uniquely among all the nations – have no right to freedom and  self-determination is obviously anti-Semitic.

Anti-Semites give a variety  of excuses to justify their rejection of the Jewish people’s right to freedom  and sovereignty in our homeland. Sometimes they say they have no problem with  Jewish nationalism per se. They are simply anti-nationalist generally. But  remarkably, these anti-nationalist anti-Zionists invariably just happen to be  outspoken supporters of Palestinian nationalism.

Moreover, it is curious  that universalist antinationalists only have a special term to describe their  opposition to Jewish nationalism. No one ever mentions being anti-Irishist, for  instance.


When someone says they oppose Irish nationalism, the obvious  conclusion is that they don’t like Irish people. Just so, people who are  anti-French tend not to like French people. And yet, the anti- Zionists would  have us believe that their opposition to the Jewish state has nothing to do with  their feelings about Jews.

Beyond their nonsensical attempts to deny the  fact that anti-Zionism is a specific rejection of a specific – that is Jewish –  type of nationalism, there is the fact that anti-Zionists tend inevitably to  drink from other anti-Jewish sewers as well.


. . .


What makes contemporary anti-Semitism  unique is its purveyors’ great efforts to hide its very existence. Their  motivation is clear. Outside the openly genocidal anti-Semitic Muslim world,  most anti-Semites are self-described liberals who claim to oppose bigotry. For  these people, pretending away their prejudice is the key to their continued  claim to enlightenment.

And so the likes of Oliver Stone publish  clarifications.

And Cole invents history. And the Europeans blame Jews  and Israel and Zionism when Jews inside and outside Israel are assaulted and  killed.


And I am sorry I wrote this column.

Because an audience  that demands an explanation of why evil is evil is an audience that has already  sided with evil.

Moderated by Merope on Jul 31, 2010 - 01:01PM
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2010 - 3:27AM #2
Merope
Posts: 9,586

This thread was moved from Middle East News & Politics.


 

Merope | Beliefnet Community Manager
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2010 - 4:31PM #3
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,150

I don't consider myself anti-Zionist.  To be honest, I just don't care.  While I doubt EVERYONE deserves their own nation, if you want one -- go for it.  I don't care either way.  The problem arises when there are multiple groups of people on one plot of land and they can't agree on how to deal with it.  To me, that is the reality of that region and picking one group over another just seems ... impractical.  Personally?  I don't feel that if the US had to fight for its independence today, we'd end up with one nation.  We still have states that argue for "states' rights" (translation:  just shut up and let us do what we want), and yet their first gripe is that the Feds aren't helping them like they should.  Our country has been, from the very beginning, profoundly self-absorbed and little interested in national health unless someone throws a bomb or airplane our way.  Then, for maybe half an hour, the nation will be "united" ... at least until there's something new to gripe about.  To me, nationalism is like marriage ... if it works for you ... wonderful ... I just don't feel like getting involved in it.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 02, 2010 - 9:55AM #4
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

I regret that my feelings nowadays are about the same as Iwantamotto's. I just can't bring myself to care all that much about Israel.


Of course I believe that the Jewish people is a people like any other and thus entitle to the right of national self-determination if they claim it. Of course I feel obligated to support other Jews in their endeavors.


I just don't think I can care any more what celebrities or liberal academics or even Middle Eastern despots have to say about Israel.


Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself against aggression, and so long as it is in the geopolitical interests of the United States to have a non-theocratic Arab ally in the Middle East (read: as long as the world economy depends on oil) Israel will survive, regardless of what Oliver Stone, Juan Cole, or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad say about it.


I just can't feel passionate about a country with an established religion that disrespects my religious convictions, that bars one-half of the citizenry from access to sacred national monuments, and that thinks building colonial settlements of religious extremists in occupied territory is somehow a good thing.


The postponement of the conversion bill to after the High Holidays has postponed my need to affiliate with the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement - although I'm not sure I could muster the passion to care enough even then.


So long as Israel has one of the best militaries in the world and so long as its existence is conducive to the geopolitical interests of the global imperial power, it's not going anywhere. Indeed, if anyone did decide to nuke Israel out of existence, it would precipate a military crisis that would most likely take the rest of us with it. However, Jews survived for 1900 years wilthout Israel and we would survive without Israel again if need be. And if God intends for there to be a Jewish state, there will be a Jewish state regardless of the whims of mortal men.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 02, 2010 - 12:22PM #5
Bezant
Posts: 1,338

Aug 2, 2010 -- 9:55AM, nieciedo wrote:


I regret that my feelings nowadays are about the same as Iwantamotto's. I just can't bring myself to care all that much about Israel.


Of course I believe that the Jewish people is a people like any other and thus entitle to the right of national self-determination if they claim it. Of course I feel obligated to support other Jews in their endeavors.


I just don't think I can care any more what celebrities or liberal academics or even Middle Eastern despots have to say about Israel.


Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself against aggression, and so long as it is in the geopolitical interests of the United States to have a non-theocratic Arab ally in the Middle East (read: as long as the world economy depends on oil) Israel will survive, regardless of what Oliver Stone, Juan Cole, or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad say about it.


I just can't feel passionate about a country with an established religion that disrespects my religious convictions, that bars one-half of the citizenry from access to sacred national monuments, and that thinks building colonial settlements of religious extremists in occupied territory is somehow a good thing.


The postponement of the conversion bill to after the High Holidays has postponed my need to affiliate with the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement - although I'm not sure I could muster the passion to care enough even then.


So long as Israel has one of the best militaries in the world and so long as its existence is conducive to the geopolitical interests of the global imperial power, it's not going anywhere. Indeed, if anyone did decide to nuke Israel out of existence, it would precipate a military crisis that would most likely take the rest of us with it. However, Jews survived for 1900 years wilthout Israel and we would survive without Israel again if need be. And if God intends for there to be a Jewish state, there will be a Jewish state regardless of the whims of mortal men.




Niciendo what you're saying reminds me of a professor I know who specialises in Islamic-Christian relations. One day he commented on a [nation--insert here]'s right to exist: "The reason why states exist is because they can."


I don't think anyone disagrees with that one.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 02, 2010 - 12:23PM #6
Bezant
Posts: 1,338

Aug 2, 2010 -- 9:55AM, nieciedo wrote:


The postponement of the conversion bill to after the High Holidays has postponed my need to affiliate with the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement - although I'm not sure I could muster the passion to care enough even then.





What was this bill about?

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 02, 2010 - 12:47PM #7
Heidi2027
Posts: 396

I still don't understand the logic behind moving this thread from the Middle East News forum.  Israel -- the eternal Jewish homeland -- is and will always be right where it is:  in the middle of the Middle East.


 

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 02, 2010 - 1:04PM #8
LeahOne
Posts: 16,267

Heidi, it's never been possible to have any kind of discussion about Zionism on that baord precisely because of the 'anti-Zionist' contingent which defines Zionism (AND Judaism per se!) as 'racist' and 'exclusionary' .  NOT 'the Israeli government', not 'the party in power' - but the essence of Zionism itself.


The many voices of 'outsiders' are too busy defining what THEY BELIEVE we believe 'Zionism' means to let our voices be heard.  And even then, they refuse to listen.


It's tough being small..... 

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 02, 2010 - 1:30PM #9
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

Aug 2, 2010 -- 12:23PM, Bezant wrote:


Aug 2, 2010 -- 9:55AM, nieciedo wrote:


The postponement of the conversion bill to after the High Holidays has postponed my need to affiliate with the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement - although I'm not sure I could muster the passion to care enough even then.





What was this bill about?





Officially and originally, it was a way to streamline the conversion process for the thousands of Russian immigrants in Israel who are of Jewish descent but not officially Jewish according to Jewish law.



After several mutations and revisions, it would in effect give total jurisdiction over Jewish identity under the Law of Return to the ultra-Orthodox Chief Rabbinate. Currently, as the Israeli Supreme Court has upheld, the Law of Return applies to all Jews - even converts -- regardless of the provenance of their conversion. This means that Reform and Conservative converts in the diaspora can get Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return.


Once they arrive in Israel, however, they are not considered Jewish and thus cannot get married or be buried in Jewish cemeteries or the like. But at least they got the automatic expedited citizenship that the Law of Return enabled.


The conversion bill would have given the Chief Rabbinate the power to determine whose conversions were valid under the Law of Return, thus excluding non-Orthodox converts from citizenship.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 02, 2010 - 1:34PM #10
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

Aug 2, 2010 -- 12:22PM, Bezant wrote:


Niciendo what you're saying reminds me of a professor I know who specialises in Islamic-Christian relations. One day he commented on a [nation--insert here]'s right to exist: "The reason why states exist is because they can."


I don't think anyone disagrees with that one.





That is essentially true.


There is no supreme global authority that can grant peoples the right to form nation-states or the right to keep them.


Historically, nation-states exist because 1.) Their citizens will them to exist and 2.) The great powers of the day allow them to exist.


Of those two, 1.) is the more crucial. Nations exist first and foremost in the hearts and minds of their people. If the will to nationhood is strong enough, it can prevail over the might of empires.

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