Here is a snippet from another post by JenKS, that I thought would make an excellent topic for discussion in its own right.

When did Jesus teach the church should be like a corporation?  Of course modern day American churches have their CEO (Pastor/Bishop/Prophet/Whatever), their employees (Members), various committess and focus groups, they measure success by metrics (attendence/new members) and sell their product (thinly disguised evangelism).  No, if you look time after time after time in the NT, the metaphor was for the church to resemble a family.  I see none of that in (most) modern day American churches (LDS or otherwise).

 

When did Jesus say that dressing up was part of the gig? When did He claim 99% of the dogma that Christian churches spew today?

That part about the Church resembling a family is most intriguing.  As to the questions at the end, I would be interested in hearing poster's answers.

Jul 24, 2010 -- 4:57AM, Theo wrote:

Dogma is Christian doctrine, and Jesus taught a lot of doctrine.

I'm not entirely sure I understand the difference between dogma, ritual, and doctrine.

can you give an example of a doctrine taught by Jesus?

and if there is any difference between dogma, ritual, and doctrine?

Jul 25, 2010 -- 7:53PM, Theo wrote:

But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given

thank you. that was the quote I have been looking for for a very long time.

it says "don't expect the non-believers to have to obey" which is why Christianity has NO PLACE legislating morality onto non-believers when it comes to Prop8.

Jul 26, 2010 -- 2:28AM, Theo wrote:

Wow - i didn't see that one coming.

~ Theo

Perhaps not, but it fits in with the quote in the OP.  We are to be a family, of equals, each recognizing that we are alike only in our love of God and in our efforts to be as loving as possible toward one another.  It has always struck me that the idea of one human making spiritual rules for another was completely anathema to the teachings of Christ, that that is what He came to end forever.

As an example, if you (a general "you") believe that homosexual or inter-racial marriage, or marriage between people of different blood types or heights, is wrong, your bullying of those who wish to enter such marriages, your prohibition of them, in no way makes your moral case for you, bullying NEVER does.  Bullying automatically puts you in the wrong, and is seen as an admission that you know you are wrong.  All you can do is explain why you believe it's wrong, and let those who wish it come to figure that out for themselves, with the help of God, or allow yourself to be corrected if you are the one in error to forbid such a thing.  The forcible infliction of your (still a general "you") opinion on those who don't share it is wrong all by itself, it is doing harm to your neighbor, strictly forbidden by Christ.  If two people love one another, no law can possibly change that, you can only make their lives more difficult.  That is the ONLY possible "benefit" to such legal bullying, and that is in strict and outright contradiction to what Christ taught with every teaching.

People speak of Satan as controlling us, or controlling events, or as responsible for all the evil in the world.  I don't believe in a separate entity that does that, in some god of evil.  I believe that man's and woman's own selfishness and ego are enough to explain all the evil in the world.  Jesus chose "commoners" to be His disciples, people of no rank or standing or wealth.  They were all exactly equal to one another, and lived, traveled, and taught together, disagreeing with one another often, but all of them recognizing that not one single one of them was any better than any other, or held the least bit more authority.  Look at organized religion and note that there is not the least resemblence between these religions and the group of Apostles that started it all.  The Mormon church is a good example, but far from alone - it's AAAALLLLLLLL about rank and heirarchy, not the least iota of which ever appeared among the Apostles.  In the same way, religions that try to foist their own ideas of what should be into law, and commit that bullying in the name of God, are classic examples of the OPPOSITE of Jesus and His followers.

Prop 8, and laws like it, are only bullying attempts at legislating malice.  There is nothing these bullies can do to end the love between two people of different heights (to change the example), and everyone with the mental competence to vote knows that full well, so malicious bullying is all that is left.  There is nothing remotely Christ-like about that, it is not only the absence of the love we are commanded to show one another, it is the presence of hatefulness.

Whatever you feel is wrong about two people of different heights marrying, you cannot bully them out of that love.  The Christ-like, the Christian thing to do, is to show by loving example how much better your life is when you live it as you think you should.  Pray for them to see the light, but make certain your prayer includes a request that YOU see the light, if you are wrong.

Jul 26, 2010 -- 3:23PM, Jen_ks wrote:

Jul 24, 2010 -- 2:47AM, moksha8088 wrote:

That part about the Church resembling a family is most intriguing.  As to the questions at the end, I would be interested in hearing poster's answers.

JMO (and why Mormonism does not fit into it):

After teaching Disciple for many years and based on personal experience, I truly believe "the church" is as simple as a gathering of believers and following the 2 most basic commandments given to us in the NT.  Anything above and beyond that is speculation and borderline unnecessary.  The moment we start worrying more about the after-life than the life we have here, then we have failed.

Of course, this is an over-simplified version of my beliefs, but in short, that is it.

 

I agree completely.