"Indeed, homo sapiens sapiens is the only animal that uses sarcasm."

Have you never lived with a cat?

Hypocrisy's said to be unique to humans.

Apr 23, 2012 -- 11:42AM, christine3 wrote:

Cid:  I attribute rational thought to the mind, not magic.

Christine:  But you need to research a little bit about the Mandaeans, whose teacher is John the Baptist (not St. John).  They have kept his teachings and his magic alive.  The word 'magic', 'Magi' or 'Magus' are similar meaning words.  Being a worker of 'magic' meant something entirely different than today's slight of hand, trickery.  It meant being wise in nature's laws, to work with them.  To do magic was to know sygyzy, polarity, astrology, astronomy.  It is divination.  If you want to understand much more of the secret teachings, their understanding of "their secret God", it is about having a relationship with the universe.  They only use the word "God" now because they have been influenced over the last 2,000 years by Judaism.  But they have an entirely different understanding of the God.  They have kept their understanding alive just they way it was 2,000 years ago.  Christianity is a religion that has gotten very off the mark according to them, has lost it's way worse than Judaism.

       Cid:  I never said magic, I said the mind.

Christine:  To them, using 'magic' meant to use the mind in conjunction with the physical world.  Words change over the years so they have no resemblance to the meaning they once had as used in that language in the Bible.

No, we can determine the meaning of ancient words by studying the grammatical and historical context. Otherwise, we would know nothing of history.

Cid:  Calming the sea, demonstrates His equality with God.

Christine:  This is a story and others are worse that were removed from the dogma so as not to bring embarrassment to the Christian religion.  For instance, it was also told of "Jesus" that as a child he made clay birds, said "Fly" and they came alive and flew away.  Another ridiculous story was that he got mad at one of his classmates in early school, striking that classmate dead with his mind alone.  These and other stories were not continued for obvious reasons.  You know how people are, they exaggerate when trying to make somebody larger than life.

       Cid:  No, he plainly teaches that he is equal with God. And also his teachings and actions plainly imply that He is God. He said that I and my father are one. He also said that he existed before Abraham. Also, John 11:27, he claims exclusive mutual knowledge between him and God, this plainly implies equality. Matt. 28:19 plainly implies His universal lordship when he says that the disciples should teach all nations His commandments. This type of authority is for God alone.

Christine:  There is a huge problem with misinterpretation and teaching wrong concepts to the masses to get them to follow.  In the Eastern religion we are one with the universe and so is everything.  Being one with the universe means to understand its laws and apply them accordingly by using the mind.

If we are one with the universe, then why does it bother even people that believe like you do, to walk in front of an eighteen wheeled giant truck moving 65 miles per hour? IOW the truck is part of you too, so why worry about it hitting you? 

chris: This was the basic understanding of the John the Baptist sect.

No, he was 1st century jew so he believed that God was separate from the universe, IOW he believed in the Creator and creation distinction. BTW this distinction is absolutely necessary in order to do science. If all is one, then science becomes impossible, because distinctions are just an illusion. 

chris: The "father" meant the ancestors at a very high level that have not fallen, who live in the light and the true understanding and teachings.  Actually, the Mandaeans say their understanding goes back to before Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  If one doesn't understand the language as it was used then (Sitz im Leben), there can be no understanding of what is being talked about by them.  As I say, today's Christianity has gotten so far off the mark.

There is absolutely no grammatico-historical evidence for this interpretation.

Christine:  To them, using 'magic' meant to use the mind in conjunction with the physical world; in other words, understanding the Magian teachings of that time.  Unfortunately, the way words are used changes over hundreds of years so they have no resemblance to the original meaning.  You are overlaying your own interpretation.

Cid:  No, we can determine the meaning of ancient words by studying the grammatical and historical context. Otherwise, we would know nothing of history.

>>>Cid, begging your pardon, there are excellent scholars researching the words now, that you don't even know about.  Even so, the divinatory meaning of the words is not understood by the best researchers on the planet.

Cid:  Calming the sea, demonstrates His equality with God.

>>>You're not getting it.  That's one of the made up stories to sell the religion to the ignorant that still believed that gods intervened and controlled nature.  You are still living in the past, worshipping the Pantheon of gods and goddesses.  That's your mindset, the way you see it, the way you have been taught to see it.  

Cid:  No, he plainly teaches that he is equal with God.  He said that I and my father are one. He also said that he existed before Abraham. Also, John 11:27, he claims exclusive mutual knowledge between him and God, this plainly implies equality. Matt. 28:19 plainly implies His universal lordship when he says that the disciples should teach all nations His commandments. This type of authority is for God alone.

>>>No.  He doesn't plainly teach that.  You're context is way off.  "Existing before Abraham" was part of their reincarnation belief.  "Father" meant the universe, all the ancestors, all that came before..........I'll give you an additional example of how interpretation was taken to the ridiculous in order to sell a religion.  If I said I know how to play the violin, you could say that I am quite comfortable and at one with the violin, I have knowledge of the violin, and my students will go on to teach other students.  But some idiots who were starting a new religion now called Christianity, wanted to attract those still worshipping gods and goddesses (i.e. Roman Pantheon) -- imaginary deities and idols.  Those developing the mindset of this new religion were very clever operators.  Invisible gods are complete and utter fantasy, and you've been sold a bill of goods and continue to believe in that fantasy. You've been hood-winked, took the bait, bamboozled and lied to.   I've told you this at least 10 times.  

Cid:  If we are one with the universe, then why does it bother even people that believe like you do, to walk in front of an eighteen wheeled giant truck moving 65 miles per hour? IOW the truck is part of you too, so why worry about it hitting you?

>>>I already explained how it was blown out of proportion.  If you want to believe in a fantasy, go right ahead; it won't improve your life.   

Cid:  No, he was 1st century jew so he believed that God was separate from the universe, IOW he believed in the Creator and creation distinction.

>>>I am quite sure you know nothing of what John the Baptist actually taught.  I have read the literature, you haven't.  He was down-played in the New Testament; the imaginary "Jesus" was built up.

Cid:  There is absolutely no grammatico-historical evidence for this interpretation.

>>>Again, an assumption.  You haven't read the literature.  

Jun 12, 2012 -- 9:44PM, Blü wrote:

Hypocrisy's said to be unique to humans.

I notice you said "said to be", which allows for human mistake, good.  I'll wager $5 that gorillas and dolphins use sarcasm.  They certainly have casual sex like humans.  

Hypocrit...a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated feelings or beliefs.  Loosely speaking, a dog can be said to be a hypocrit when she wags her tail when she is fearful.