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Switch to Forum Live View The 'existence' of gods
2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 11:32PM #5311
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Jul 2, 2012 -- 11:08PM, farragut wrote:


"It wasn't there when I saw it. "


 


Where was it when you saw it? Were you looking elsewhere?



I meant that it (the Science 2.0 link) wasn't in the post at the time that I read the post.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 12:58AM #5312
El Cid
Posts: 1,573

May 29, 2012 -- 10:58AM, Blü wrote:


Cid


I have been around Christians who believe in inerrancy for over 50 years and have believed in it myself for over 35 years and have seen no signs in them or myself of cognitive dissonance


blu: So you're all equanimous about the earth being flat?  Cripes!



The logical fallacy of the non sequitor.


ec: found them to be more honest than those that don't believe in it.


blu: They freely admit that bibilical inerrancy is an indefensible nonsense?


And that the earth is round and they only pretend it's flat?



See above. Again.



ec: And studies have shown that regular church goers are more law abiding than people who don't go to church regularly.


blu: Then why are there proportionately so few atheists in the jails?



Because there are so few atheists in the general population. And just as most Christians in America are just cultural christians who generally do not attend church, so too in jails.


ec: While young earth creationists start out with diferent presuppostions than secular scientists, they actually do do experiments and research.


blu: You mean real science?  Not stuff published in parish magazines and propaganda pieces?

They can't.  If it doesn't agree with their 'inerrancy' fantasy, they won't publish it, no matter how accurate it is.  They demand that it fit their irrational preconceptions. They don't give a flying fig for what's true in reality.



Even though I don't completely agree with their presuppositions, we all have them including you exalted atheists.


So who are you to say that they are not doing science?


blu: To do science, you have to (1) reason honestly (2) from examinable evidence (3) in order to find what's true in reality. "Creation scientists" don't do even one of those things.  Nor do they test their conclusions objectively to find if they're true or false eg was Mt Everest 15 feet under water in 2348 BCE?  And did you see how Dembski, Meyer and Campbell wet themselves and fled when they found out that if they gave evidence at the Dover trial, they'd have to stand still and answer on cross-examination about the crap they spout?

Behe showed up though.  He acknowledged that no "creation scientist"  had done or was doing any scientific experiments about ID.  I'm not aware that any of them anywhere has ever done any while wearing his or her "creation scientist" hat.



Behe was wrong. Though due to lack of funds they are not able to do a great deal.


ec: So you would take away their First Amendment rights?


blu: The charge isn't speaking your mind.  The charge is child abuse, the perverting of young minds.



They have a right to teach their children what they believe is true. That is not abuse. And it is also included in the free exercise clause of the second amendment.



ec: The overwhelming majority of members of the RR are not racist at all.


blu: So what percentage of your congregation is black? When did you last have a drive to increase black participation?  Where are you black pastors?



Irrelevant, people generally attend churches based on the type of music and the preaching style. Generally blacks don't like the style of music and preaching of Presbyterians. But nevertheless, a former pastor of my church established the first black presbyterian church in the south.


ec: That is primarily due to certain large groups in those states who have not been exposed to Christian culture for as long a period as other groups.


blu: Total nonsense.  It's the refusal of the RR to spend money on equality of opportunity, plus the toxic notion of the 'deserving poor', which gets you all off the hook as things in many parts of the South show all but no progress from generation to generation.



There is no need to spend money on equality of opportunity, it already exists, that is what makes America great. The only deserving poor that Christians believe exist are those who do not want to work. Rewarding laziness will cause economic and national collapse, look at modern Greece.


ec: When did Pat Robertson advocate murder?


blu: When he used his radio program to call for the murder of Venezuala's Chavez.  And if he does that out loud, who knows what he does in private?



While I am not a big fan of Robertson, he just lost his temper with an oppressive tyrant. It is similar but not even as bad as when John Kennedy tried to have Castro assassinated. Kennedy was a fellow secular humanist.


ec: You just advocated above, imprisonment for Christians engaging in free speech regarding creationism.


blu: I advocate jail for anyone who deliberately corrupts children.  Do you disagree?
 





In America parents can teach their children whatever they want. See above about the second amendment. If you can't live with our Constitution maybe you need to leave. How about the Eurozone? 

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 8:59AM #5313
Sigmund
Posts: 1,305

Jul 3, 2012 -- 12:58AM, El Cid wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 10:58AM, Blü wrote:


So who are you to say that they are not doing science?


blu: To do science, you have to (1) reason honestly (2) from examinable evidence (3) in order to find what's true in reality. "Creation scientists" don't do even one of those things.  Nor do they test their conclusions objectively to find if they're true or false eg was Mt Everest 15 feet under water in 2348 BCE?  And did you see how Dembski, Meyer and Campbell wet themselves and fled when they found out that if they gave evidence at the Dover trial, they'd have to stand still and answer on cross-examination about the crap they spout?

Behe showed up though.  He acknowledged that no "creation scientist"  had done or was doing any scientific experiments about ID.  I'm not aware that any of them anywhere has ever done any while wearing his or her "creation scientist" hat.


Behe was wrong. Though due to lack of funds they are not able to do a great deal.



Lack of funds? The Discovery Institute (where Behe is a fellow) has an annual budget of $4 million dollars and they give away $1.2 million in grants every year.



ec: When did Pat Robertson advocate murder?


blu: When he used his radio program to call for the murder of Venezuala's Chavez.  And if he does that out loud, who knows what he does in private?


While I am not a big fan of Robertson, he just lost his temper with an oppressive tyrant. It is similar but not even as bad as when John Kennedy tried to have Castro assassinated. Kennedy was a fellow secular humanist.



Kennedy was a Secular Humanist? That's going to come as quite a shock to those who screamed bloody murder during his presidential campaign that since Kennedy was Catholic, DC would become a mini-Rome and America would be ruled by the Pope.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 12:16PM #5314
wohali
Posts: 10,227

El Cid, you post so much spinctorally derived material, such a JFK being secular humanist when the entire world, besides you, knowes that he was Roman Catholic.\


www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB103/i...

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 2:50PM #5315
amcolph
Posts: 17,184

It may be something he learned at Church.  Our old friend Iamachild claims that RCs are secular humanists, too, because of what they believe about the Bible.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 3:04PM #5316
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,779

Fascinting how many churches (generic) lie about people outside the church (generic). I am sure that comes under bearing false witness.


One could argue they believe the lies, but that is not really an excuse, since they could actually find out the facts and choose not too.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 3:33PM #5317
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Christine:


"All the articles were the same.  I didn't see AKA_me's link, so found the ice sheet article myself and it had a Christian cartoon of an ark with animals."


JC:


"As I recall both articles were cited by Aka with the Science 2.0 article first."


"How bizzare, how bizzare" 

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 4:37PM #5318
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

Headdesk.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 4:44PM #5319
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Aka_me, right?

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 4:45PM #5320
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

Are you surprised?

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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