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Switch to Forum Live View The 'existence' of gods
2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 10:59AM #4481
christine3
Posts: 6,671

May 6, 2012 -- 9:04AM, Ken wrote:


You are forgetting that God is a perfect personal being. To want something is to lack it, and perfection lacks nothing. A perfect God cannot want. Every time you say "God wants" you are denying the perfection of God. That's blasphemy.




So true.  

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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 11:24AM #4482
christine3
Posts: 6,671

'aDoNaY
ad-onay'

"'aDoNaY is translated as Lord, meaning controller, ruler, master, introduced in
Job 28:28."


Job 28:28

New International Version (NIV)

28 And he said to the human race,
    “The fear of the Lord—that is wisdom,
    and to shun evil A)" style="font-size: 0.65em; font-weight: bold; line-height: normal; vertical-align: top;" data-mce-style="font-size: 0.65em; font-weight: bold; line-height: normal; vertical-align: top;">is understanding.”




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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 11:25AM #4483
christine3
Posts: 6,671

'aDoNaY
ad-onay'

"'aDoNaY is translated as Lord, meaning controller, ruler, master, introduced in
Job 28:28."




JOB 28:28 New International Version (NIV)


And he said, "The fear of the Lord--that is wisdom, 


and to shun evil is understanding."




Once you have taken hook, they will tell you who and what is evil because they know you believe them.




Any god that requires subjects to fear/worship him-her-it, is the poster boy for a controlled cult.  Then the Jesus person comes along and says to love each other, but it can't be done because subjects are still controlled by the other god that taught them to fear and do what the church people tell their children to do, fear others.  And the others are beasts worthy of death because they do not believe and are evil. I've seen that-it is no good. 



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2 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 7:07PM #4484
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,779

May 6, 2012 -- 11:25AM, christine3 wrote:



'aDoNaY
ad-onay'

"'aDoNaY is translated as Lord, meaning controller, ruler, master, introduced in
Job 28:28."




JOB 28:28 New International Version (NIV)


And he said, "The fear of the Lord--that is wisdom, 


and to shun evil is understanding."




Once you have taken hook, they will tell you who and what is evil because they know you believe them.




Any god that requires subjects to fear/worship him-her-it, is the poster boy for a controlled cult.  Then the Jesus person comes along and says to love each other, but it can't be done because subjects are still controlled by the other god that taught them to fear and do what the church people tell their children to do, fear others.  And the others are beasts worthy of death because they do not believe and are evil. I've seen that-it is no good. 






Gods do not require subjects to fear them, people do.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 12:24AM #4485
El Cid
Posts: 1,571

Mar 28, 2012 -- 11:01AM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 12:33AM, El Cid wrote:

No, having free will allows us to experience freedom and freely choose to love Him. And that is what He wants, He doesn't want robots.


Apparently this god thing does want robots. We have free will without a god. But, it's been explained to you several times, your god thing does not have free will itself. If it knows everything, past present and future, then it cannot do anything that it does not already know it's going to do. Just think of how horrible that knowing EVERYTHING! would be; it would know the gas content, the particle content, the moisture content, the noise, the smell, of ever fart ever farted. The roar must be deafening.


See how silly it gets when you really start thinking about gods and all the claims made about them?





No, without God you are just a bag of chemicals and your choices and behavior are determined by the ratio of reagents in your bag not on weighing evidence with logical thinking. Just because you know what you are going to do is not equivalent to actually doing it. Once you know the smell of one fart, why smell anymore. He doesn't care what farts smell like so He can choose not to smell them just like us.

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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 12:34AM #4486
mountain_man
Posts: 38,790

May 7, 2012 -- 12:24AM, El Cid wrote:

No, without God you are just a bag of chemicals and your choices and behavior are determined by the ratio of reagents in your bag not on weighing evidence with logical thinking.


That's pretty much a non sequitur. Your reply has nothing to do with what I said about Free Will.  Since gods do not exist and our behavior is not determined as you claim above, there must be something you're leaving out our not understanding.


Just because you know what you are going to do is not equivalent to actually doing it.


Essentially, yes, it does. If you were going to do something else, you'd know that too. The only way out of this is to admit your god is not omniscient.


Once you know the smell of one fart, why smell anymore. He doesn't care what farts smell like so He can choose not to smell them just like us.


Evidence?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 2:57AM #4487
Blü
Posts: 24,677

Cid


He doesn't care what farts smell like so He can choose not to smell them just like us.


Every fart happens exactly as he foresaw it before he made the universe and exactly as he observes and senses it through his omnipresence.


That suggests he cares about farts as much as he cares about anything else.

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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 8:17AM #4488
Ken
Posts: 33,859

May 7, 2012 -- 12:24AM, El Cid wrote:

No, without God you are just a bag of chemicals and your choices and behavior are determined by the ratio of reagents in your bag not on weighing evidence with logical thinking.


We are all just bags of chemicals, but bags of chemicals are rather wonderful. These bags of chemicals do a number of interesting things, such as (in some cases) weighing evidence with logical thinking. Thinking, whether logical or illogical, is done entirely with chemicals and cannot be done without them. As your God isn't composed of chemicals, he can't think.


Once you know the smell of one fart, why smell anymore. He doesn't care what farts smell like so He can choose not to smell them just like us.


To be omniscient is to know everything. An omniscient deity must know the smell of every fart ever farted. If there is even one fart that he does not know, he is not omniscient.

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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 10:11AM #4489
christine3
Posts: 6,671

May 7, 2012 -- 12:24AM, El Cid wrote:



No, without God you are just a bag of chemicals and your choices and behavior are determined by the ratio of reagents in your bag not on weighing evidence with logical thinking. Just because you know what you are going to do is not equivalent to actually doing it. Once you know the smell of one fart, why smell anymore. He doesn't care what farts smell like so He can choose not to smell them just like us.




Without the ability to make choices and navigate the dangerous areas in life I'm just a bag of chemicals.  But I have a brain. I don't need a god, just need to know how to think and have a moral conscience.  If a teacher shows me how to get something done in the world, I'll do it.  If a priest tells me to pray to God, that's the best way for the job not to get done.  

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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 10:17AM #4490
F1fan
Posts: 11,150

May 7, 2012 -- 12:24AM, El Cid wrote:

No, without God you are just a bag of chemicals and your choices and behavior are determined by the ratio of reagents in your bag not on weighing evidence with logical thinking.



If your idea of god really existed and what you think about it is true, then belief one way or the other doesn't matter.  It would be a matter of what evidence we have available to us as human beings to conclude that any sort of god exists and works a certain way.  As it happens we humans have no evidence that supports what you claim is true.


It doesn't meant anything that folks like you have decided that humans are special.



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