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Switch to Forum Live View Europe's Latest Move To Ban Kosher Slaughter
4 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2010 - 12:19PM #11
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 14,473

BD


Slaughterhouses of any description are pretty gruesome places.


The best way I can relate how it is supposed to be done, is to tell you the following story told to me by relatives.


They were visiting other relatives in Armenia and were asked to bring a lamb as a house gift for a rather large celebration. This meant that they were being asked to bring slaughtered lamb. On the way to the relatives' town they passed a number of farms and one had a sign that they had lambs for sale. They saw the farmer and he picked a lamb out of the heard and walked away from the heard with the lamb. He gave the lamb a pat, took his knife. lifted the animals head and slit its throat. The lamb was dead before he knew anything was happening. It is still gruesome, but at least the lamb did not suffer.


Needless to say, despite not being vegetarians, my relatives passed on the meat dish at the party.


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2010 - 12:25PM #12
river8101
Posts: 5,490

As long as shackling and hoisting the live animal is permitted in the koshering process, I will not eat kosher animals.  As I understand that koshering method is no longer permitted in the US, (thank goodness) at least that's what I've read.  But US still get most of their meat from Argentina and Uruguay, where that cruel method is still going on to kosher animals.  It's awful. You can read about what it is by googling "shackling and hoisting" for kosher animals.  Below is one article about it. 


www.chai-online.org/en/compassion/judais...


Fortunately, I just read that the Chief Rabbinate of Israel has finally announced that by 2011 it will no longer certify meat as kosher if it's from a slaughterhouse that use "shackle and hoist"--that's about 80 percent of the meat imported.   I hope he means it. 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2010 - 2:08PM #13
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

I am the worst hypocrite when it comes to meat. I am appalled by the slaughter of animals - so much so that the concept of restoring sacrifices nauseates me (I felt physically ill the first time I studied Tractate Tamid). On the other hand, I like meat and do not have the willpower to become vegetarian.


I guess I rationalize it that the animals are already dead and my declining to purchase meat won't bring them back to life nor will my one-man boycott detail the entire slaughterhouse industry. Oh well.


My point though is that I have this dream that some day genetic engineering will allow us to bypass the whole slaughter issue by growing meat directly from cells, using the cow or chicken genome to grow the flesh without it ever having to be part of a living cow or chicken. I'm sure the technology either already exists or will soon be available. The only problem is getting it off the ground since it would require tremendous capital outlaw and there would need to be a market for it.


But if it were a choice between killing an animal or harvesting meat grown in a vat, I'd take the vat-grown meat any day.


I wonder about the halakhic implications of this. If the meat does not come from an animal and does not have to be slaughtered, is it kosher? If the meat doesn't actually come from a cow (despite being grown perhaps from bovine stem cells), does it halakhically qualify as a beef and can one then have kosher cheeseburgers?


If "pork" is artificially grown in a vat, would it still technically be pig meat if it never actually was part of a pig? Would such a substance be kosher?

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2010 - 2:52PM #14
river8101
Posts: 5,490

You raise many good questions that I never thought about.  Wouldn't be great if they could do what you suggest?  Why wouldn't it be kosher?  If it's not, than too bad.  I think it would take time for some people to get used to the idea, then again, many people once they try it, would like it. Of course the meat industry would have a fit.  


My mother was kosher when I was a child growing up, but at some point, she gave it up.  I still remember going to this little place with her where she bought her chickens, picking one out (a live one) and then the guy took the chicken went to the back of the place and a little later brought her back a plucked chicken.  I don't know if it was the one my mom picked out or not. (Neither, I suspect, did she.)   The chicken was packed it in a bag, and my mother took it home.  After that, she had to go through  a proceedure to get any left over pieces of feathers out. I don't remember how she did it because I usually left the house as it was a very smelly business singging out the few parts of the feathers left in.   YUK.  As the years went by, my mom stopped being kosher, except at Passover, and bought her chickens from the Super Market. 


I was never kosher.  I like meat sometimes, but I only buy meat and fish from Whole Foods, where at least they're ethically raised and farmed.  Heaven only knows how some plants kill their chickens but I've read stories.... and it sounds grusome.  My son married a Catholic girl.  She converted to Judaism , and buys only kosher meat.  I don't know whether my son feels the same as she does about religion, as he wasn't raised kosher, but she's into it now so he goes along with it. 


My father was raised kosher.  He traveled a lot in the south selling clothing that the family made.  That's how he met my mom. Her parents had a general store in VA.  Anyway, in the south, back then, there wasn't much choice as to where he ate (I doubt there were kosker restuarants) and he grew very, very fond of baked Va. ham.  One day he brought a ham home to my mother, and asked her to cook it.  She had no idea how, and she didn't want the ham in the house, so she put it outside.  (I assume it was winter. ) When my dad got home, he was mad because she didn't cook the ham.  I guess he was waiting for this "great dinner" all day.  My mother complained she didn't know how to cook ham.  Well, he still wanted it, so she called a Gentile neighbor who showed her how, and my mother told me that was the end of her kosher kitchen.  Still, by the time I came along, years later,  she was still buying kosher meats.  At some point she just stopped.  I often wonder when she was kosher, how come she still baked ham, and fried bacon.  But, never ever cooked pork!  Weird.  (I think in her mind there was a difference betweeen ham and pork.)  When I was grown, my dad and mom and two of their Jewish friends, had a crab feast every Sunday afternoon.  Weird.  But this is Maryland, and everybody ate steamed crabs in the summer.  


Anyway, I hope they stop massacring animals as they do. 

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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