(Note: By popular request, I've moved the posts regarding public school prayer over here into a new thread. It's going to look funky. but I'll do my best to keep things looking clean while I transfer the posts over. - B_D)

Having been one of those children (I grew up in  Philadelphia), I entirely DISagree with the characerization above.

What  was outlawed, was the required attendance at assemblies  where the KJV was read - a specified number of verses from the 'OT' and  'NT'.  This had been done in the '50's at the 'behest' of a  conservatve Protestant State Legislature in PA, who were trying to  'counteract' the 'GODless Commies of Russia (They did a far more useful  'conteracting' by beefing up science curricula then, LOL!).   My direct  personal experience was that I and my 600 classmates, about 590 of whom  were Jewish (and the other 10 likely non-observant Roman Catholics!)  were required by state law to hav the Vice Principal read 20 verses  from the KJV.  While the Principal wisely kept the NT portions to Paul's  writing about caritas or the Sermon on the Mount - the VP was another  matter entirely.....

Shall I go into the 'cognitive  dissonance' between say, the line in 'Mi Yimalel' which translates as  "In every age, a hero or sage (= PHARISEE!) arose to our aid"  - and  certain passages in the NT about those selfsame Pharisees?

Do I  really NEED to explain to people the effects of having an authority  figure - for this began when I was in first grade! - recite calumny of  an entire group of one's faith's 'Fathers' or Heroes? in an 'official'  context (remember that bit about 'your permanent record....?)

I  can't go back and shield 6, 7, 8 year old Leah from that very real  assault on her Jewishness - but DAMNED! if I'll ever be silent when that  legislated attack by Protestant zealots upon the righs of all other  citizens is spoken of as other than it was - bigotry gone wild, an  attempt to INDOCTRINATE everyone's children into Protestant  Christianity, seizing a position of 'athority' - in direct violation of  every intent of the US Constitution!

I WILL chain myself to  the courthouse steps if need be:  it WILL be 'over my dead body' that  the rights of us 'minority' faiths to raise our children in our faiths  get violated.  This 'power grab' by conservative Protestant sects was  every bit as wrong as slavery itself, IMHO.....

(getting down  off the soap-box and dragging it into the corner, where I stand waiting  to be smacked by 'the Mods'.....)

Heidi - I do believe  you mean well.  But knowing the details of that old law which was  struck down because it automatically disenfranchised every  non-Protestant child - I cannot but see it as a negative and destructive  act by a 'majority' frantic to keep its hold on our country..... an  ugly remnant of the days when 'Christian' included an assumed precedence  over all other faiths.

LeahOne, 6/3, 1:12a

Heidi:  'In GOD we Trust' was added to our coinage quite a long time  after the Revolution - like the 'under GOD' in the Pledge, it wasn't  there originally.

In case you didn't get it, I'm talking  strictly on an INternal basis, about the Constitution which is the  'Bible' of the American nation.   And there is plenty of 'civil  religion' to be had, if one will - patriotism does not have to be  militaristic or simplistic. 

I feel you're making unwarranted  assumptions about my views, and I'd apreciate it if you'd find the  patience to ASK me questions first.  Again, you seem to be laboring  under the misconception that I'm some kind of a 'liberal', or that I  have enthusiastic support for the current administration. 

GOD  belongs in many places in American life - but NOT! in public elementary  school classrooms.  The ONLY way to protect everyone's religious rights  is to leave it out of the public education system.   We cannot even  'require' a belief in a Deity:  atheists and agnostics *must* have the  same rights as you and I, or you and I have betrayed the vision of the  Founding Fathers to leave 'GOD' up to each individual's conscience.

The  'fight' is not between the 'GODly' and the 'GODless':  it's between  those who will allow individuals freedom of any religious view, and  those who insist on trying to involve the
State in some way in  individuals' religious life.

ctcss, 6/3, 7:21a

Jun  1, 2010 --   8:53AM, LeahOne wrote:

@CTCSS:  I realize that ST hasn't been getting quite  the reception in spirit that IMO his question deserved.  And now you can  feel free to extend your apologies to me for the suggestion-by-omission  that I was less-than-cordial in my reponses....  : ))

I  offer my humblest apologies. You've generally been one of the more  consistently gentle posters on Bnet and a would be a nice addition to  any thread IMO.

Jun  2, 2010 --  8:33PM, LeahOne wrote:

I  can't go back and shield 6, 7, 8 year old Leah from that very real  assault on her Jewishness - but DAMNED! if I'll ever be silent when that  legislated attack by Protestant zealots upon the righs of all other  citizens is spoken of as other than it was - bigotry gone wild, an  attempt to INDOCTRINATE everyone's children into Protestant  Christianity, seizing a position of 'athority' - in direct violation of  every intent of the US Constitution!

Actually,  it was an assault on anyone who didn't practice the faith of those in  charge. I guess I qualify as a Protestant Christian (Christian Science  certainly doesn't spring from Catholic or Orthodox roots), but I always  wondered why I had to say the Lord's Prayer in a manner that seemed  foreign to me. It made me very aware that I was different than the  others around me (I'm guessing Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, and, of  course, my Jewish neighbors.)

Jun  2, 2010 -- 10:12PM, Heidi2027 wrote:

Our  children apparently aren't getting 'what it means to be American.'

In  God We Trust is obviously an apt motto -- it is on every piece of coin  and currency.

What I am saying is that when God is removed from  our public identity, in a strictly sanitized secular identity -- there  is going to be a hole to fill.  There are those ready to fill it with  their own laws and doctrines.

Heidi,  that "hole" you are talking about needs to be filled by the familiy  giving their children a strong grounding in their own faith (at least  for those of us who are religious). I did not receive anything of  religious value from the state other than the right to practice freely.  It was my mom's strong stand and example as a Christian Scientist (as  well as members of our church) that gave me something to think about and  to practice on my own. It was only as I did that more and more of that  on my own that I gained the confidence to start facing the problems that  the world presents using what I had learned (and am continuing to  learn) from my family and my church.

Look, they say that all  politics is local. Well, in many ways, all problems are personal. Long  before most of us encounter the "bad guys" in real life, we will  encounter them in thought. And, all too often, we will find those "bad  guys" in the thoughts (hatred, anger, impatience, suspicion,  indifference, etc.) we entertain about others. Before Martin Luther King  Jr could confront the violence and hatred of those who espoused  rascism, he had to confront violence and hatred in himself and overcome  it there before he could overcome it in others. He didn't physically arm  himself or his followers. He simply confronted his foes and helped them  repent (rethink, reconsider) what it was they were doing. He didn't  physically wipe them out in order to succeed in his mission. The battle  was a mental one and it happened in each person's thought. Our personal  mental battles are tough, but they are the only ones that can bring  about an actual change in our experience.

Since this thread is  about the grace of God, you might want to consider how it is possible  for God's grace (loving, patient, tender, and strong) to act in each one  of us (even those whom we may consider to be the bad guys) to bring  about a greater sense of God's dominion in our thoughts (and therefore  in all of our lives) so that, well, we won't have enemies anymore.

nieciedo, 6/3, 7:54a