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Switch to Forum Live View Mormon Doctrine now out of print
4 years ago  ::  May 23, 2010 - 1:48AM #1
Aka_me
Posts: 12,297

Still, many complained that  it did not fairly reflect the diversity of opinion among Latter-day  Saints and their leaders.


requires nothing more than God telling the prophet to grab some pencils and a ream of paper to get an official "God's Doctrine".


"Elder McConkie was an  apostle and a good man but a man of his times," said Darius Gray, former  president of the Genesis Branch for black Mormons. "Sadly his  times included a period in this nation when not all men were judged by  the content of their character but rather the color of their skin."


why is it so impossible to ask God why He failed at helping heal His believers faster than society is able to heal itself?



"His book," Prince said,  "has done some serious damage."


In the first edition, Prince said, it was his "diatribe against the  Roman Catholic Church that did the most harm, but subsequently, the real  damage has been his statements about blacks."


it's ok to think it, just not ok to "say it out loud".


After the LDS Church opened  its all-male priesthood to blacks in 1978, McConkie deleted his previous  statement predicting that never would happen.


spirit of discernment at work.


The volume's continued  availability after its wide distribution, he said, will "continue to  provide critics of the church with an enduring basis for claiming,  however unfairly, that 'Mormon doctrines' are non-Christian or  anti-Christian, and that the church is a racist institution."


plausible deniability... it wasn't official.


ya, and what was so impossible about showing some spine and forcing all copies recalled upon the FIRST printing?


The UN says the ebola outbreak must be controlled within 60 days or else the world faces an "unprecedented" situation for which there is no plan.
this is absolutely fantastic as it unites the world into being OUR problem rather than THEIR problem.
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4 years ago  ::  May 23, 2010 - 9:26AM #2
Ironhold
Posts: 11,548

Mind knocking off the self-righteousness? All it does is show that you know far less than what you claim to know.


 


In this case, McConkie was a trusted individual who'd never screwed up that badly before and so no one thought to check his work.


Furthermore, the reason why the book has gone out of print is simply low sales. It happens. Welcome to the world of business.

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4 years ago  ::  May 23, 2010 - 5:34PM #3
Aka_me
Posts: 12,297

" Mormon Doctrine served two generations of the Mormon rank and file as the main authoritative source of LDS teachings," said LDS sociologist Armand Mauss. "With its authoritative tone and constant promotion from high places, it came to be regularly cited in the church curriculum, especially in [Church Educational System] materials, and soon took on almost a scriptural stature."


don't promote a screw up by quoting from it.


everyone screwed up by allowing it to go to second printing, by reading from it, and by believing it.


the caffeteria theology has had a change of appetite, so the menu must adapt to the new appetites. God certainly CAN'T be expected to produce 1 authoritative menu.

The UN says the ebola outbreak must be controlled within 60 days or else the world faces an "unprecedented" situation for which there is no plan.
this is absolutely fantastic as it unites the world into being OUR problem rather than THEIR problem.
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4 years ago  ::  May 23, 2010 - 8:20PM #4
Ironhold
Posts: 11,548

May 23, 2010 -- 5:34PM, Aka_me wrote:


the caffeteria theology has had a change of appetite, so the menu must adapt to the new appetites. God certainly CAN'T be expected to produce 1 authoritative menu.





It got its second printing because - gasp - it was popular.


If books are popular and demand remains high, stuff gets green-lit for a second go-around.


If it's not, it's allowed to run its course as soon as the last scheduled print runs are completed.


It's the nature of the business when it comes to book publishing.


It's why, say, Harry Potter has been in almost continuous publication since the first book came out, yet the works of C. S. Lewis, Lovecraft, and Tolkien (who in the grand scheme of things had a far greater impact on the world of fantasy literature) go in and out of print as people "rediscover" them.


Your rantings and ravings about this topic show what you don't know and that's it.

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4 years ago  ::  May 23, 2010 - 9:52PM #5
Svetlana
Posts: 11,306

May 23, 2010 -- 8:20PM, Ironhold wrote:


Your rantings and ravings about this topic show what you don't know and that's it.



Iron, you sound like you're posting to the wrong thread.  Me isn't remotely "ranting and raving" (in fact, claiming he is makes YOU look like you're hoping to hide something), and you are not at all addressing the issue.  McConkie wrote things that were once quoted by the highest Mormon authorities, and now those things are dismissed or called error.  THAT is the issue.  It is inexcusable of the church not to make crystal clear even before publication, exactly to what degree the work is to be relied upon as support for doctrine.  There's no excuse for allowing members to rely on it completely, to let its (in McConkie's case) hateful racism break so many faithful hearts, and NOW to claim that he was wrong.

"No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it."  ~ (common sense)

"Never place a period where God has placed a comma."  ~ Gracie Allen

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"I wonder sometimes if we ever give God a headache." ~ Dontay Hall, age 8
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4 years ago  ::  May 23, 2010 - 11:33PM #6
Aka_me
Posts: 12,297

May 23, 2010 -- 8:20PM, Ironhold wrote:

It got its second printing because - gasp - it was popular.


If books are popular and demand remains high, stuff gets green-lit for a second go-around.


If it's not, it's allowed to run its course as soon as the last scheduled print runs are completed.


It's the nature of the business when it comes to book publishing.


It's why, say, Harry Potter has been in almost continuous publication since the first book came out, yet the works of C. S. Lewis, Lovecraft, and Tolkien (who in the grand scheme of things had a far greater impact on the world of fantasy literature) go in and out of print as people "rediscover" them.


Your rantings and ravings about this topic show what you don't know and that's it.



it was yum yum good... back when racism was acceptable.


now it's become yucky bad.


and the church has plausible deniability... because it was never official.


if God could have seen fit to create an official doctrine worth standing behind there would be no need for plausible deniability.


 


book publishing, and expectation of "how God rolls"...


might be easily confused as the same thing to some, but not to the majority of people.


 


the church can do NOTHING but operate under plausable deniability because God hasn't opened His mouth to say anything in centuries.


 


the church is going to look back on prop 8 support with the same plausible deniability because God never said anything.


 


the reason it has become yucky bad... is not because of God


in spite of God


ALL people have gotten smarter NATURALLY, and recognize the disease of racism for what it is.

The UN says the ebola outbreak must be controlled within 60 days or else the world faces an "unprecedented" situation for which there is no plan.
this is absolutely fantastic as it unites the world into being OUR problem rather than THEIR problem.
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4 years ago  ::  May 24, 2010 - 9:39AM #7
Ironhold
Posts: 11,548

May 23, 2010 -- 9:52PM, Svetlana wrote:


May 23, 2010 -- 8:20PM, Ironhold wrote:


Your rantings and ravings about this topic show what you don't know and that's it.



Iron, you sound like you're posting to the wrong thread.  Me isn't remotely "ranting and raving" (in fact, claiming he is makes YOU look like you're hoping to hide something), and you are not at all addressing the issue.  McConkie wrote things that were once quoted by the highest Mormon authorities, and now those things are dismissed or called error.  THAT is the issue.  It is inexcusable of the church not to make crystal clear even before publication, exactly to what degree the work is to be relied upon as support for doctrine.  There's no excuse for allowing members to rely on it completely, to let its (in McConkie's case) hateful racism break so many faithful hearts, and NOW to claim that he was wrong.





Do you know why there was such a long length of time between the second and third print runs?


It's because when the church found out exactly what McConkie had written, they took it out of print and forced him to do an edited & revised edition before allowing it to return to print.


This was back in the late 1960s / early 1970s when this happened, and the book would not return for another print run until some time around 1979... roughly 13 years after the second printing took place.


So no, it's not like the church only just now decided that what he wrote wasn't OK. They came down on him several decades ago, a fact which entirely too many critics of the church refuse to acknowledge.


It'd be like, say, me still holding a grudge against the RCC for the Taxil Hoax or the Malleus Mallefecarum.

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4 years ago  ::  May 24, 2010 - 12:07PM #8
Aka_me
Posts: 12,297

May 24, 2010 -- 9:39AM, Ironhold wrote:

Do you know why there was such a long length of time between the second and third print runs?


It's because when the church found out exactly what McConkie had written, they took it out of print and forced him to do an edited & revised edition before allowing it to return to print.


This was back in the late 1960s / early 1970s when this happened, and the book would not return for another print run until some time around 1979... roughly 13 years after the second printing took place.


So no, it's not like the church only just now decided that what he wrote wasn't OK. They came down on him several decades ago, a fact which entirely too many critics of the church refuse to acknowledge.


It'd be like, say, me still holding a grudge against the RCC for the Taxil Hoax or the Malleus Mallefecarum.




clearly the church can't "reign in their own"


when it comes to impersonating officialness by publishing under the guise of "doctrine" without permission.


either halt printing #1 and retract all copies for it's miserable failure at BEING official.


or give it a blessing of holy water for speaking the Will of God which God was too lazy to instruct the prophet to actually get around to doing.


that isn't overly complicated.

The UN says the ebola outbreak must be controlled within 60 days or else the world faces an "unprecedented" situation for which there is no plan.
this is absolutely fantastic as it unites the world into being OUR problem rather than THEIR problem.
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4 years ago  ::  May 24, 2010 - 5:10PM #9
Ironhold
Posts: 11,548

May 24, 2010 -- 12:07PM, Aka_me wrote:


that isn't overly complicated.





Know what else is pretty easy?


 


Flipping a book over to check the copyright.


If the copyright is owned by the church or Intellectual Reserve, then it's canon and acceptable for use as an instructional tool.


If not, then it isn't; it comes from a third party.


The church has had this system in place since the 1980s.


Anyone with half a brain cell can do this.

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4 years ago  ::  May 26, 2010 - 5:09AM #10
Unworthyone
Posts: 2,942

May 24, 2010 -- 5:10PM, Ironhold wrote:


May 24, 2010 -- 12:07PM, Aka_me wrote:


that isn't overly complicated.





Know what else is pretty easy?


 


Flipping a book over to check the copyright.


If the copyright is owned by the church or Intellectual Reserve, then it's canon and acceptable for use as an instructional tool.


If not, then it isn't; it comes from a third party.


The church has had this system in place since the 1980s.


Anyone with half a brain cell can do this.




What is the difference between the copyright of Mormon Doctrine (not official) and all the official church publications that freely quoted from Mormon Doctrine?  When The Ensign or Improvement Era quoted from Mormon Doctrine for decades, you can't then disavow Mormon Doctrine as not endorsed by the church simply because of a publishing house.


No, McConkie and Mormon Doctrine are just more embarrassment the church has to overcome with good PR. 

I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.  Thomas Jefferson

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein

You can get anything you want out of life if you will just help enough other people get what they want. Zig Ziglar

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html
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