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Switch to Forum Live View Buddhist Anatta and Hindu Atma
5 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2010 - 1:52AM #21
Jm8
Posts: 784

> the self of B is not the same as A nor is it different from A.

Previously we identified the self spoken of by Buddha as ahankara, unreal ego known from Bhagavad gita, etc.

> I don’t think the Buddha was interested in changing the Brahmins. He just realized that rituals and sacrifices are unnecessary and that there is no place for a Creator god.

Jatakas, ranked among the oldest Buddhist texts, clearly identify Buddha as Visnu. Comparison of characteristics:

www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/Buddh...

Hope this helps. Hare Krsna
Your servant, bh. Jan

www.vrindavan-dham.com
www.veda.harekrsna.cz

dvaitaM bandhAya mokSAt prAk prApte bodhe manISayA
bhaktyarthaM kalpitam dvaitaM advaitAd api sundaram

"Duality is bondage before moksa and wisdom after realization. The duality accepted for the purpose of bhakti is sweeter than even non-duality." (from mangalacarana to Advaitasiddhi sara sangraha by Madhusudana Sarasvati, former advaitin)

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2010 - 4:10PM #22
Helichopper
Posts: 6

Ahankara belongs to the Sankhya and is not a Buddhist term. If I’m not mistaken, I believe the question posed is regarding the existence of the self(Atma,anatta) and not attachment to the self(ahankara).


 The Jakata, a later compilation into the Khuddaka-nikaya of the Pali canon, was not canonized until the fifth century. I don’t recall any Jakata about Buddha being identified as Visnu, unless it is in one of the many apocrypal Jakatas accreted in the later composition. In fact the ninth avatar of Visnu as Buddha appears in the Dasavataras of the Garuda Purana and the Dasavataras has been identified as a true sequential depiction of the great unfolding of evolution way before Darwin.


Shanti

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2010 - 1:07AM #23
gangajal
Posts: 835

Jun 10, 2010 -- 4:14PM, Helichopper wrote:


May 2, 2010 -- 4:56AM, gangajal wrote:


 


There is a contradiction in the Buddhist position about the self. As I said before when A dies, B is born with the karma of A. Since there is no self, there is no relation between A and B. This position is contradictory on two counts:


 


1. Suppose A was a murderer. Poor B is saddled with the murderous karma of A for no reason at all. Moreover it seems to be thorougly unfair.


 




 


Yes indeed, if life is so random, there is no place for morals. Fortunately, this was the false belief of the materialist Gosaliputra and not the Buddha.


 


The two counts that you cited were based on the assumption that there is no relation between A and B. Not only that this is not the position of the Buddhist, this is where western logic fails and Indian (Buddhist in particular) logic holds.


 


The real Buddhist position is:


 


When B is born with the karma of A, B is neither A nor not A. In other words, the self of B is not the same as A nor is it different from A.





Even this curious position that the self of B is not the same as A nor is it different from A makes the Buddhist position palatable. Let me revisit my example of A being a murderer. Clearly the self of B, both that is not the same as A and that which is not different from A will suffer the Karmic consequences of A being the muderer. It seems fair that the self of B that is not different from A should suffer from the karmic consequences of A being the murderer. It seems highly unfair that the self of B that is not the same as A should suffer from the karmic consequences of A being the murderer.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2010 - 3:41AM #24
Jm8
Posts: 784

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahamkara
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atman_(Buddhism)

> I don’t recall any Jakata about Buddha being identified as Visnu

E.g. the canonical Dasaratha Jataka 461

> In fact the ninth avatar of Visnu as Buddha appears in the Dasavataras of the Garuda Purana

Bhagavata Purana mentions two different Buddhas and other Puranas also mention them.

> the Dasavataras has been identified as a true sequential depiction of the great unfolding of evolution way before Darwin.

This is an opinion of some but I haven't seen the Darwinist evolution in Vedic canon.

Hope this helps. Hare Krsna
Your servant, bh. Jan

www.vrindavan-dham.com
www.veda.harekrsna.cz

dvaitaM bandhAya mokSAt prAk prApte bodhe manISayA
bhaktyarthaM kalpitam dvaitaM advaitAd api sundaram

"Duality is bondage before moksa and wisdom after realization. The duality accepted for the purpose of bhakti is sweeter than even non-duality." (from mangalacarana to Advaitasiddhi sara sangraha by Madhusudana Sarasvati, former advaitin)

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