From he-man

Nope, no superstitous and mythical beliefs here just plain old faith.

My response

But every superstitously based mythical religious belief system falls back on "faith" to defend its foundational beliefs.   Why do you think Christianity has some special  lock on reality; but all of the other such beliefs, like the Aztec belief system etc. etc., were just childish superstitions accepted by people whose knowldege base was far inferior to that which exists today?  

Perhaps you should take another look at what I said about the amount of time one spends believing in one belief system or another.   It takes a special kind of courage to be willing to set aside all of that time when one embraced a flawed belief system and take on a new one with all of the uncertainties that such an action involves.

Are you willing to do that?   Is your inherent quest for the truth strong enough to allow you to take such a risk?   I know that these are tough questions and only you can decide how to respond to them.  I can make suggestions which I believe are emminently valid but the final decision is yours alone.   This is a perfect example of a voluntary religious belief system, which The Religion Of Truth exemplifies.  Once again, the decision is entirely up to you.      

From he-man

ROT is better described as just that a bunch of Rot, for there are not Religions, but a Religion based upon a belief in the God of the Bible, which apparently, you have not read or have no understanding of the revealed "Truth".

My response

Please he-man try to control yourself.  Losing your cool like this gives a poor impression of the value of the Christian belief system to elevate ones emotional control. 

I was expected to attend Church or subtly forced to go to Church until I was about 12 years old.  Have you noticed that your beloved religion is losing its younger members?   They are actively recruiting members in the backward Third World areas which shows you what level of illiteracy and naivete that one must possess to believe what one finds in the Bible.  If I was trying to sell this superstitious and mythical belief system. I'd probably do the same thing.  That is if I could look myself in the mirror the next day. 

From he-man
 

You error again when you stated, "fear is not some horrible weakness" not knowing what the word means.  Fear is not used to describe our feelings toward God.

Reverence is the word you need to learn. You may mean that we should not Fear anyone who can destroy this mortal body but that we should revere Him who can destroy this mortal body and the Spirit.

My response

Do you realize that your fear of failure to "shut me up", as you so quaintly put it in another of your posts, is responsible for such an outburst as demonstrated by your above words.   You may have read some of the 98 page Document, but you should have stayed clear of the topic of fear.

It is patently obvious that in other situations, with other people, you were able to use your intensive knowledge about various historical facts to cower other people into silence and have them crawl away in failure.  Since I recognize the symptoms of fear when I read them, your subtrafuge and avoidance behavior,(which is a telltale sign of fear) had the opposite affect on me.  It just gave me more courage to tell the truth, while you continued to show increasing signs of frustration. 

Suggesting that we should not fear anyone tells me that you don't understand fear at all.  You see all human beings fear the unknown and since another human being can never be completly understood, there is always the potential for fear to enter into an interpersonal situation.

The trick in life is not to get rid of fear but rather to react to it correctly so that your behavior is rational rather than erratic.   All that life is in reality, is an endless series of achievements each one of which can invoke the emotion of fear.  Failing to have a basic understanding about fear is to be constantly uncertain about the basic realities of life itself. 

And now comes the kicker.  Since we fear the unknown, and if you react correctly to that fear, it will motivate you to increase your knowledge.  That is why I said that fear is not some horrible weakness.  In reality, it is the cornerstone upon which the human race builds its base of knowledge without which we would certainly be doomed.        

In response to my suggestion that he (he-man) has a choice to keep believing in an irrational belief system,(Christianity) or that he could join the Relgion Of Truth that makes a determined effort to eradicate all forms of superstition and/or myth, he-man wrote as follows:   

Sorry, but to have a choice you must first be called and then you may knock and the door will be opened.

My response

Perhaps you don't even realize how you automatically revert into avoidance behavior brought on by the emotion of fear.   Endless rote answers from verse and scripture.  Do you have any ideas to offer that are from your own mind itself?  

Jan 21, 2010 -- 3:12PM, StephenK.Adams wrote:

In response to my suggestion that he (he-man) has a choice to keep believing in an irrational belief system,(Christianity) or that he could join the Relgion Of Truth that makes a determined effort to eradicate all forms of superstition and/or myth, he-man wrote as follows:

Jan 21, 2010 -- 10:47AM, he-man wrote:

 
And as you avoided answering, I say again, , but to have a choice you must first be called and then you may knock and the door will be opened.
Lu 6:13  And when it was day, he called his disciples to him: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

Mt 20:16  So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Lu 3:7  Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
9  And already also the pickaxe is to stand regarding the root of the trees; all trees then not producing good fruit is cut off and thrown into the fire. (Gehenna) see above "Who shall pay a usage of age lasting death"

Jn 15:6  If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. (in Gehenna)

7  If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8  Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Fear? I said I do not Fear GOD, I revere God.  I do, of course, have human fears, especially for you:

  2Co 11:3  But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Lu 1:74  That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

Jan 21, 2010 -- 3:12PM, StephenK.Adams wrote:

My response: Perhaps you don't even realize how you automatically revert into avoidance behavior brought on by the emotion of fear.   Endless rote answers from verse and scripture.  Do you have any ideas to offer that are from your own mind itself? 

I do not have to offer my own words when the Bible speaks for me. I speak as I am moved and the only thing I fear, is that I might quote the wrong words and of course, my fear FOR you. Your words from your own mind are just that and nothing else.
Ro 8:24  For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Joh 8:28  Jesus therefore said to them, When ye shall have lifted up the Son of man, then ye shall know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father has taught me I speak these things.
Joh 12:49  For I have not spoken from myself, but the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what I should say and what I should speak;

Hello --- to those who have been reading these submissions without entering any submissions themselves.  Incidently, thanks for your interest in this board. 

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 I sent an email letter to an acquaintance of mine, which contained the 98 page document introducing The Religion Of Truth.   Even though we do not agree on the need for religion in ones life, his ideas were so valuable that I asked his permission to post them into this site. 

He has graciously agreed to do this without first seeing the contents of my interspersed ideas.  I have given him the username of Stingray and I have interspersed my comments with his words. 

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From Stingray

Hello (StephenK.Adams),

Thank you for directing my attention to this most interesting read.
I read it all, start to finish, and I would like to share with you the following thoughts:

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My response

Thank you for taking the time to read all of those 96 pages and thanks for the complimentary words that you have to offer.  Without actually saying the words, I believe that you have declined to submit any messages into my site either.  However, because you did not say the word NO expressly, I suppose I could say that you left the door slightly ajar.

Other people who I have asked either said no, or simply ignored my suggestion that they post something into this site to help me get it started.  Even though you have indicated that you will not enter this site, I am indebted to you for not only taking the time to read the entire document but also for writing this email which offers me some extremely valuable constructive criticism.  

It also sheds a light on the reluctance to get involved in such a new endeavour by what I am sure will turn out  to be a sizable number of people.  While I have every respect for others who said no to my request, I have even more respect for the constructive criticism that you took the time to inform me of. There is a quotation that says one can be damned by praise  and saved by constructive criticism.   I believe it is true.

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From Stingray

Personally, and after much life experience and more than casual exposure to a number of "religions" and belief systems, I have come to the conclusion that ALL organized religion is wrong, evil, and also the cuase of more death and suffering than practically any other force on this planet.

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My response

I take it then, that the contents of the book called, Holy Horrors, resonated rather strongly with your thoughts on these matters.  One is reminded of the fate of those who cry wolf too often, but there is also the fate of those who fail to listen when there really is a wolf at the door.

I suppose a prime example of this phenomena was when Winston Churchill constantly cautioned against the gang of criminals led by Hitler who were in control of the German nation.   The cost of such failure to listen was measured in millions upon millions of lives.

While I find it quite easy to believe that a majority of people of the world are fed up with all forms of organized religions, to adopt an isolationist policy to religion itself will not prevent the holocaust that is lurking for the world at large.   

The suicide bomber who was disarmed around Christmas time in an airplane near Detroit, believes that Islam is the ultimate truth.   They believe that even if they have to kill off two billion of the worlds six billion people to achieve supremacy for Islam, they will have done Allah’s work.  They believe that after Islam is secured throughout the world an obvious level of nirvana will miraculously occur.

This potential future that lies in store for the human race will finally force the human race to give up its isolationist attitude to religion and replace it with a religion that mirrors reality instead of some form of superstitious and/or mythical belief system.

I think that you believe that we can rid ourselves of the scourge of religion by abolishing religion itself.   I have found during my 72 years of life that the best way of overcoming a bad habit is not simply to stop doing it, but rather, by replacing it with a good habit.  I consider The Religion Of Truth to be that “GOOD HABIT”  

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From Stingray.

It is the lot of humankind to be superstitious, narrow minded, greedy, jealous, fearful of our own mortality, etc, etc, and these have been the very driving forces behind all of the organized religions.

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My response

While there is much truth in your above words it is also intuitive to keep the following thoughts in mind.   Unless a large majority of the human race were decent, law abiding citizens who care about others, especially if their own situation is relatively secure, --- if not for these type of people, we would not be experiencing the level of civilization that many people on this planet are experiencing right at this moment.

In all probability you have seen more of the darker side of human behaviour than I have during my lifetime.  But as a cab driver, I saw some deceitful and downright vicious people over my 35 years of driving a taxi here in Toronto.  When I started I erroneously believed that up to 50% of my customers would try to cheat me out of the fare or try to rob me.   It turned out to be about 2% rather than 50%.

Call me polyannic if you like, but I believe that we have the potential to be much better than we think we can be.  Perhaps you are aware that I have just paraphrased a quotation from the golfer Ken Ventura that appears near the very end of the 98 page document putting forward the tenets of the Religion Of Truth.  

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From Stingray

While I do agree with you that the Bible and Christian religion is driven by ancient, tired, and superstitious beliefs, I also agree with you that many other religions are likewise tainted.

IMHO, I feel that organized religion, in any and all forms, is positively the very worst thing that mankind could embrace and follow to whatever ends.

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My response

The definition of religion is as follows: --- The belief in or worship of (God or Gods) --- a Creator.  I think it also would be appropriate to say that religions try to  answer the questions where did we come from and why are we here?  Then they also try to put forward what they believe will be good rules for living.

I don’t believe we will ever stop asking those questions and as such, that search will be religious in nature.  Asking everyone to embrace an Atheistic approach to reality is, in my opinion, an achievement that will never reach fruition. While Atheism seems to be the most logical way to look at reality, the propensity of order throughout the Universe appears to deny the concepts of Atheism. 

I highly recommend that you go to your local library and get a copy of the book called, The Greatest Show On Earth.  The author Richard Dawkins is an Atheist and the focus of the book is to prove unequivocally that evolution is not just a passing theory but rather it is a fundamental fact of reality.

In the process of writing this book, Dawkins also proved  unequivocally that our existing religions are mythical and superstitious in nature, but at the same time, he perhaps inadvertently proved that a Creator is just as viable, and probably even more so, an explanation for the existence of life as the belief that it is all an accident.

As stated in my document, what I admire most about an Atheist, which is almost always lacking in a seriously religious person, is the ability to reject old ideas as soon as one can determine that a new idea coincides with reality on a much deeper level than that which was accepted before. 

The fundamental religionist has deluded himself or herself into believing that he or she has already determined what the ultimate truth is and no further questioning of that divinely inspired truth is necessary.

  *************************************   

From Stingray

You are to be commended for your eye opening and bravely honest written work and research on this matter but even the word "Religion" in the title of the ROT bothers me to some degree.

For your own interest, I believe that we all possess a life force and that we each have a unique "spirit" if you will, made up of the powers of our emotions, i.e. love, hate, strength, fear, etc.

But, I do not believe in an eternal soul or Heaven and Hell. Heaven and Hell were created by the church to keep us in line.
While I do not subscribe to an "afterlife", I firmly believe that the psychic imprints left by certain individuals can live on long after death and make their presence known to the living.

Call them ghosts, call them phantoms, or whatever but I prefer to think of such things as being acts or deeds filled with intense emotions and energy that keep "replaying" themselves over and over like a loop tape. As to why I believe in such things? It is because I have seen and experienced them personally many, many times. 

But, I do not believe they are connected with a spiritual "good" or "evil."  This life force of which I speak of is not good or evil.  The only thing that is capable of manifesting true "good" or "evil" are people themselves.

In reading the above, you may come to think that perhaps I am some sort of new age occultist. Perhaps some would say this and make that claim but in reality it is not so.
 
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My response

Perhaps you do not wish to interpret the above as a religion and it certainly does not put forth the belief in a God, but nevertheless, it certainly sounds like a belief system to me.   Whether the reluctance to call it a religion has the capacity to prevent it from embracing many of the negative aspects of a religion is something that I am not really sure about.

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From Stingray

All of my life I have been a magician. I have studied misdirection of the highest order. And, it is due to my very studies in these types of psychologies and historical subjects I have emerged a skeptic at heart with an open mind willing to see, experience, and examine.

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My response

The above ideas entered directly into the response I made to an individual who is using the username of he-man in my beliefnet site.  I am sorry but I don’t remember the exact submission of his (he-man) where this “misdirection” occurred. 

I determined that he was using the old con of bait and switch in one of his criticisms of my ideas.  As a result of your above words I became aware of this ploy on his part and called him out on it.  Thank you.  

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From Stingray

What you have written contains many of the core conclusions I myself have reached in my research and life. While I agree with much of it, certain things such as describing how ROT views homosexuality, I cannot agree with. This is not a "choice", rather it is genetic.

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My response

Unfortunately the only conclusion that I can come to in the Ann Heche story in my document is that you think that she is either lying or is mistaken in some unknown way.  As is the case in all human achievements, the manner in which one reacts to fear is of the utmost importance.

I distinctly remember reading about a young man whose parents were to shy to discuss anything about the sexual aspects of life with their young son.  During his teenage years he began to have wet dreams, he developed a terribly negative self image about himself.

Since a woman expected a man to perform for at least 7 or 8 minutes during intercourse, he concluded that he was an out and out failure as a man.  Not only was he not capable of lasting the required 7 or 8 minutes, he didn’t even bother to wake up.

He didn’t even realize that these type of fears, in combination with a number of other conglomerated fears, entered into his decision to embrace a homosexual lifestyle, until a learned psychiatrist made him aware of them and he subsequently embraced a heterosexual lifestyle.  Perhaps I should not have refrained from including that story in the document itself.   

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From Stingray

And speaking of this, one other thing bothers me... when a person speaks as you have about how ROT will view this or that, it reminds me of any other religion stating it's position on this or that matter.

By the mere stating of a position, as in "this is how our religion views this" you are doing what all other religions have done in the past and that which has caused many of humankind's discord; namely, telling people how to think or look at things.

I prefer an open mind with no one telling me how any group of people will be looking at things.  To this end, I will close with one of my favorite famous historical quotes: --- "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreampt of in your philosophy."

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My response

Stating a position implies making a decision.  It is virtually impossible to go through life without making decisions.  This simple truth is most eloquently stated in the following story involving the venerable Winston Churchill.

While Winston’s party was in opposition during the early months of the second world war, one of his colleagues spent a considerable amount of time berating the government for their failure to make a decision. 

When he finally sat down Winston rose and said:  “Unfortunately I cannot agree with my esteemed colleague, the government has indeed made a decision.  They have decided to remain undecided.”

It is not the fact that religions make decisions that I find offensive, what I find to be offensive is their belief that such decisions should be written in stone and never revisited for possible change to bring it up to date with the hopefully increased knowledge that time itself should bring to a society that accepts “your” stated concept of an open mind.

It is that kind of response to the endless decisions that any belief system, religious or otherwise must make, that the Religion Of Truth will emphatically embrace.  Thanks again Stingray, maybe we don’t agree on the bringing into existence of another religion, but at least we could discuss those differences with an open mind and civil words.