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5 years ago  ::  Sep 23, 2009 - 7:22PM #1
Nay_ho_tze
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It is a commonly held although incorrect belief among Christians
that reincarnation is contrary to their faith.
In fact, there has never, ever been a papal edict issued
against the teaching of reincarnation.
Further, the early fathers of the church (see: Origen)
who steadfastly taught reincarnation were hunted and destroyed
by corrupt thinkers wanting people to believe
that they only had one chance at life to "get it right."

It wasn't a Church official or any Church procedure
that ultimately stripped Christian teaching and understanding
of reincarnation from the faithful.
It was a politician, the emperor Justinian,
who'd imprisoned the pope (Vigilius)
because the latter had refused to outlaw the teaching.
With the pope imprisoned, reincarnation was forever banished
from Christianity in an illegal anathema proclaimed  at the Fifth Ecumenical Council
where Justinian had railroaded the voting by allowing only his own bishops,
and not the pope's bishops, to attend.

IMHO, political corruption, not divine inspiration,
forever changed the face of the Church's teachings.
For my money there is an ironic freedom in knowing
that the Church has, in fact, never approved the suppression
of teaching reincarnation.
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2009 - 4:59PM #2
sonnymoon42
Posts: 1,760

 


nay_ho_tze,


Reincarnation is absolutely contrary to Christian faith. To argue otherwise is to grossly mischaracterize Christianity and its central belief of personal salvation.


 

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 25, 2009 - 8:34PM #3
Nay_ho_tze
Posts: 2,605
Sonnymoon writes: Reincarnation is absolutely contrary to Christian faith.
The following two links may or may not interest you ...
click here
and
click here

Sonnymoon writes:  To argue otherwise is to grossly mischaracterize Christianity
and its central belief of personal salvation.


Well, actually, I'm not arguing anything ...
The intention behind this thread is to reach out to Christians
who struggle to reconcile what they might be experiencing
with the constraints of a man-made dogma which limits their faith.

See, the concept of reincarnation,
and acknowledging it or not,
is deeply rooted in empirical understanding.
It's a hands-on kind of thing ...
definitely not a third person event,
meaning...
When one experiences a valid past life memory,
its veracity can no more be denied
than can the face one sees in one's own mirror...
it's that real.
Moreover, and more significantly,
neither can one escape the deep shift in self-knowledge
which always accompanies a valid past life memory ...

Be that as it may ...
*shrugs*

I've written this many times in this forum,
but I'll share it one more time:
for disbelievers, no proof is possible -
and for believers, no proof is necessary
Nay_ho_tze
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 26, 2009 - 7:47PM #4
sonnymoon42
Posts: 1,760
There were many variants in beliefs in the early days of Christianity, one of which was Gnosticism. I don't think it's possible to prove conclusively that any partcular set of ideas was 'truer' that another set (i.e. that concepts such as reincarnation and the 'sacred feminine' were part of the 'real' Christianity before being rejecetd by corrupt Church leaders). Christian beliefs evolved over a period of time before becoming codified into pretty much into what it is today. Some writings were left out of what is now known as the New Testament, for reasons we can only surmise. You would, however, be hard pressed to find a mainstream Christian who would say that reincarnation is part of current Christian doctrine.
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 26, 2009 - 8:43PM #5
Nay_ho_tze
Posts: 2,605
sonnymoon writes: You would, however, be hard pressed to find a mainstream Christian who
would say that reincarnation is part of current Christian doctrine.

The OP neither says nor implies as much...
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2009 - 4:33PM #6
sonnymoon42
Posts: 1,760
I think both assumptions about the afterlife--salvation or reincarnation--are wrong. My feeling is that the brain is the seat of consciousness, and when our bodies die, so does that thing we call "spirit." Poof! That's the end of it. Nothing comes after, no heaven, hell, or next life. It's a little depressing, I admit; I would rather think that when I kick the bucket my some part of me floats away into the ether and carries on.
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 30, 2009 - 8:29PM #7
Nay_ho_tze
Posts: 2,605
Sunnymoon writes: My feeling is that the brain is the seat of consciousness,..
'Just curious...
If one's brain is the "seat of consciousness",
how and why is consciousness lost because its seat is no more?


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5 years ago  ::  Oct 01, 2009 - 10:25AM #8
sonnymoon42
Posts: 1,760

Nay_ho_tze,


Just as the heart is the organ that circulates blood, the brain is the organ that makes us sentient. Remove one organ or the other, and life--and with it, awareness--ceases. I could be wrong, of course, but it seems to me that consciousness is not a separate entity. Mind (or spirit, if you wish) and body are one.

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 01, 2009 - 1:51PM #9
Nay_ho_tze
Posts: 2,605
If you're saying heart : blood = brain : consciousness
(as in, heart is to blood as brain is to consciousness) -

with all due respect, IME your analogy has a minor glitch in balance ...

heart, blood and brain are all physical ...

Consciousness is not...

=]
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5 years ago  ::  Oct 01, 2009 - 2:29PM #10
sonnymoon42
Posts: 1,760

You're right; it is a faulty analogy; I meant only that the heart and the brain are both vital organs, each of which serve a unique function in our physical well-being.


Perhaps, though, you could look at it this way: The heart is the center of the human circulatory system, which delivers oxygen to the body via the blood vessels. The brain is the center of the central nervous system, which sends electrochemical impulses throughout the body. Those impulses provide sensory input (via eyes, ears, etc.) and enable us to respond appropriately. The same impulses are responsible for our emotions, thoughts, and memories; in short , our consciousness. If you remove the neurons, or destroy the pathways along which the impulses travel, how is it exactly that one can possibly retain consciousness? The "self" isn't some sort of nebulous cloud that hovers above us; it is inseparable from our physical bodies. 

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