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Switch to Forum Live View Contradictions in the Gita
5 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 1:07PM #11
gangajal
Posts: 835

Sep 22, 2009 -- 10:42AM, HinduGuy wrote:


Looks like we are not connecting. What I was saying was that saying everyone will be dead anyway, did not make any sense. As I have posted, what we do in 300 or 400 years may not matter, nobody to read our thoughts or follow our actions. If what we do does not matter, than why do anything? If the Kauravas are going to die anyway, why wage war with them?




HinduGuy,


     There is an answer to your question about why we should do anything if what we do does not matter since we will all die. The answer is that our mental inclination due to our past karma will force us to do things.


Gangajal

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 23, 2009 - 10:28AM #12
HinduGuy
Posts: 373

Silence, I don't think you are saying anything new. Unfortunately you remind of those people who used to say if you desire so-and-so, you will cheat or committ an illegal act to achieve those desires. Well, why can't desires be fulfilled by sheer hard work? I desired good marks in school and college and worked hard, made sacrifices to acheive those marks.


You know what, take the best students in any class and you will find that none of them cheat!


So who is this person saying this? The coward, the lazy, the weak! The lazy and the weak want good marks but don't want to work for it. The coward wants to be a hero but doesn't have the guts to fight. So they cameup with these sayings -


1. I could have gotten it if I want to - I just don't want to. I don't have that desire, I have "higher" goals.


2. Once you desire something, you run after it, all kinds of bad things will happen, you will cheat to gain that desire.


And ah yes 3. All desires are bad. The way to Moksha is by getting rid of desires.


To me, you are following the "wisdom" of these kind of people.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 23, 2009 - 10:34AM #13
HinduGuy
Posts: 373

Sep 22, 2009 -- 1:07PM, gangajal wrote:


HinduGuy,


     There is an answer to your question about why we should do anything if what we do does not matter since we will all die. The answer is that our mental inclination due to our past karma will force us to do things.


Gangajal




Aaah, I think this is a convuluted answer, and an easy excuse. Let's blame our karma for our acts of today? I believe in taking responsibility for my actions, don't blame anyone, not even God.


But I think you have the wrong view of Karma - God does not force us to do anything. We are responsible for our actions. If we did something bad in the previous life, God will then put us in a situation where we can do something about it. The bad karma is never erased, we can only balance it by doing good karma.


Besides if everything is about karma from previous lives, then what is your understanding of Moksha? To me this is about becoming enlightened, to become part of God, its not just about plus or minus of karmaic events until you get to zero.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 23, 2009 - 2:36PM #14
gangajal
Posts: 835

Sep 23, 2009 -- 10:34AM, HinduGuy wrote:


[Aaah, I think this is a convuluted answer, and an easy excuse. Let's blame our karma for our acts of today? I believe in taking responsibility for my actions, don't blame anyone, not even God.


But I think you have the wrong view of Karma - God does not force us to do anything. We are responsible for our actions. If we did something bad in the previous life, God will then put us in a situation where we can do something about it. The bad karma is never erased, we can only balance it by doing good karma.


Besides if everything is about karma from previous lives, then what is your understanding of Moksha? To me this is about becoming enlightened, to become part of God, its not just about plus or minus of karmaic events until you get to zero.




My answer is neither convoluted nor am I giving an easy excuse. It is a fact according to the Karma theory that sanchita karma (past accumulated karma) leaves its impression on our mind. Thus all of us have a certain bent and that will influence our present day life.  We all know that death is inevitable. Death will destroy all our attainments, everything. Still we live as if there is no death. How is that possible? That is possible because usually our mind does not dwell on thoughts of death. I am saying that at least one possible reason for this behavior of our mind is our sanchita karma.


Why are you bringing in God or responsibility? What I am saying has nothing to do with either. Nor am I saying that everything is about karma from previous lives. I can't possibly say that since the Karma theory itself says that sanchita karma is only one factor that influences us.


You have said that,' bad karma is never erased, we can only balance it by doing good karma'. This is not my view. Sri Sarada Devi says,"The result of karma, is inevitable. But by repeating the Name of God, you
can lessen its intensity. If you were destined to have a wound as wide as a ploughshare, you will get pinprick at least. The effect of karma, can be counteracted to a great extent by japa and austerities. If you do good
action, that will counteract your past evil action. Past sin can be counteracted by meditation, japa, and spiritual thought."


The effects of past bad karma can be largely erased! If that can not be done then no one will call on God.


You have given your definition of Moksha as "becoming enlightened, to become part of God, its not just about plus or minus of karmaic events until you get to zero." How would you become part of God if you still have your past karmas on your shoulder? Then God will become affected by past bad karmas. You have to reduce the effect of your past karmas to zero before you will have a chance to become part of God.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2009 - 12:23AM #15
silence_speaks
Posts: 568

Dear HinduGuy,


            :) God alone can tell what brought you to such understanding. Anyways, you say "to me this is what you are" ... and you have freedom to have your opinions. Its useless to make you think differently about me! instead, therefore, lets concentrate on the ideas we are discussing.


First Desirelessness is not Moksha. if so, every night i am in Moksha. Coz in deep sleep i had no desires.


Moksha leads to desirelessness. Just as, if you get a million dollars, you no more worry about petty businesses. Moksha is what makes you beyond desires. Coz having known yourself, you are So Complete that you no more depend on certain sensations to make you complete.


Ok, ill ask you a rather silly question. Please answer it after some thought. i shall be off for a couple of days ... so no need to hurry for the answer ... but plz think and answer:


If you are craving for certain sensations to make you feel complete ... is that desirable ?


Love!


Silence

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 11, 2010 - 4:40AM #16
Issabhandhu12
Posts: 25

Hi,


     Just a funny note...


I saw a comic in the paper the other day.  It was a student monk sitting and talking to his Master (in 'hindu' robes).  The student said;


"Master, I have finally eliminated all my desires; except for one...


                                                                               The desire to eliminate my desires."


Cool

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 11, 2010 - 1:02PM #17
gangajal
Posts: 835

One uses the desire to eliminate all desires. Then one has to eliminate the desire to eliminate all desires. It is like using a thorn to get rid of thorns that prick one's feet. After all those thorns have been uprooted then one throws away that particular thorn also.

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