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Switch to Forum Live View What do you do if your minister seems ungodly?
5 years ago  ::  Sep 10, 2009 - 7:18PM #1
GSW
Posts: 30

I'll start by saying that the church I go to isn't Evangelical but I'm hoiping that I can get help from you folks anyhow.  Some of the aspects of this would be lost in some other forums, I'm afraid.


 


I'm a new bride.  My husband & I started attending our church about a year before we even thought of engagement.  He has became a ministerial assistant, teaches religious education, & is a member of the choir. I have made many friends there & have been asked often to become more involved too.  I just can't though.  Last Winter we had some difficulty and went to our minister for his advise.  Duing that meeting our minister said so many things that were completely against scriptures. Some of the other things actually made me think of Charletans that are spoken of & should be watched out for.  I wanted to just plain quit & go to another church.


Here's where coming to you for advice comes in.  I firmly believe that scripture tells me that I am to submit myself to my husband & obey him.  He is telling me that we are going to stay with this church.  Over Summer it was easier to avoid church.  Children's religious education classes are starting up & my daughter loves them so I get pressure from her too. My husband is being asked more & more to assist with services now too. My husband has told me that it's OK if I only go when he is involved with the service.  That helps.


It would be so much simpler if we had a different minister but that isn't likely to happen.  I've prayed about this & done everything that I can think of on my own to resolve it.  The only answer I have come to is that I'll obey my husband & go to service when he tells me to but I just can't honestly feel part of this congregation & certainly can't honestly follow someone who bordered so much on blasphemy.  I do my own Bible study & live as best as I can. 


Do you have any advise for me?


Thank you.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2009 - 6:21AM #2
haggaion
Posts: 1,972

What does your husband think about the minister?  Why does he want to stay?  How does he justify staying in light of what is being taught to the kids, or is this a case of the minister being out to lunch and the rest of the minsitries of the church are on target?

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2009 - 4:40PM #3
GSW
Posts: 30

My husband somehow didn't see anything wrong with what our minister said. I have studied The Bible far more than my husband has though.  I would have to say that I have no issues with what is being taught to my daughter. Perhaps from this issue.  The issue lies a lot around the fact that I wish to practise this fundamental aspect of submitting to my husband.  I also was asked to take a more leadership riole & even deliver sermons. The minister is against a woman submitting to her husband & sees nothing wrong with women even being ministers. I can see helping with services perhaps & even testifying but I believe that I should not be doing anything that would put me in a leadership role over men. Our minister basically turned the words around in Ephesians & Genesis to fit his needs in the argument.


As far as the rest of the ministries of the church.  I have to say pretty good too.  Community service is important like helping homeless, blood drives, charitable causes.


My husband feels that we have found a spiritual home & as I mentioned he is very involved.  So much about the congregation is what he has sought for a long time for his spiritual home.  He enjoys all aspects of the church.


Since the original discussion my husband & I have came to an agreement that he will take his role as head of our house & accepts that I will differ to him so we are past that between ourselves.  I still have this hagging problem of the fact that in order to be submissive to my husband & follow him into this house of worship I have to do so with a minister that I have little trust in.  Also previously mentioned.  I am doing so because I'm told to,  I'm feeling less than honorable though because of this dilemma.


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2009 - 11:46AM #4
Theo
Posts: 4,691

Prov 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths." ~ NKJV


 Dear lady, this is a case where you pretty much have to be your own pastor, even so,


it sounds to me like you are doing well so far. Do keep your pastor in prayer, but remember that you are not his disciple, you are a disciple of the Lord Jesus... He is your King and the head of your husband and your pastor.


 Another thing you might be able to do is get involved in para-church organizations that bring you into fellowship with likeminded women from other Churches. Being part of an inter-Church prayer meeting might be a way of growing in your relationship with the Lord that your church does not provide. And if you still lack the kind of spiritual guidance that you feel you need... call another pastor. Its not like they only have ears to hear the members of their own Churches.


There are lots of Churches out there in the big world that unfortunately do not have a clue as to what Christianity is all about. First, the Church is to be a house of worship - just as Jesus said that the Temple in Jerusalem was supposed to be a House of Prayer for all nations, but then He accused the priests and spiritual leaders of Israel, of having made it a den of thieves. Secondly, it is to be a place of ministry, where we serve one another and meet each other's spiritual needs. Thirdly, it is to be a place of Christian education, where both the children and adults are taught the Word of God and how to live the Christian life. And fourthly, it is to be a place from which to preach the Gospel and reach out into the community and the world with the message of the Cross of Christ.


 In your situation it sounds like you pretty much have an open door to serve others, to teach others, and to share the Gospel. The fact that you are a woman and feel the need to submit to your husband should not hinder you from teaching and even preaching, if you have the approval of your husband.


 In apostolic times there were women who took leading roles in the Church. There were prophetesses, there were women who taught other women and children, and there were widows who served the Church by offering up continual prayer, there were women who served in ministry with their husbands... there were even deaconesses. The fact that St. Paul said that "women" should keep silent in the Church, not exercise authority over a man, and learn from their own husbands at home, should be taken within this larger context. It was uncommon for the women of ancient times to be educated... this is among the reasons why Paul said what He said. But if you are studied in the Scriptures, and you are well spoken, and you desire to serve the Lord - more power to you sister!


 ~ Theophilus  

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2009 - 11:51PM #5
GSW
Posts: 30

Thank you Theophilus;


At this poit I do somewhat feel like I am being my own pastor.  I am honored when you say that you feel I am doing well. 


I hadn't heard of inter-Church prayer.  I'll have to see what I can find in my area regarding that.


You have already helped me a lot & I'd like to look into what you have said in greater depth.  Can you point me to the chapters in The Bible that speak about these points, please?


Blessings to you;


GSW


 


Sep 12, 2009 -- 11:46AM, Theo wrote:


 In apostolic times there were women who took leading roles in the Church. There were prophetesses, there were women who taught other women and children, and there were widows who served the Church by offering up continual prayer, there were women who served in ministry with their husbands... there were even deaconesses.


 ~ Theophilus  



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5 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2009 - 12:19PM #6
Theo
Posts: 4,691

Yes I can help you out with Scripture, give me a day or so to get things together.


~ Theophilus

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2009 - 4:15PM #7
Theo
Posts: 4,691
Rom 16:1-2 “I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.” ~ NKJV

The word translated as “servant” in the Greek text here is diakonon from which we get our word deacon. A deacon is a servant who runs errands; an attendant, i.e. a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon or deaconess) And as you can see here, Paul is commending her to the Church of Rome so that they will assist her in church business. 

Historically the ancient Church supported certain women, most often times widows, who served the Church as servants (i.e. deacons) who helped with mundane as well as spiritual ministries. 1 Tim 5:9-10 “Do not let a widow under sixty years old be taken into the number, and not unless she has been the wife of one man, well reported for good works: if she has brought up children, if she has lodged strangers, if she has washed the saints' feet, if she has relieved the afflicted, if she has diligently followed every good work.”

Titus 2:3-5 “…the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things - that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.”

Acts 18:24-27 Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.”

Here we have a husband and wife ministry team instructing Apollos.

Luke 2:36-38 Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; 37 and this woman was a widow of about eighty-four years, who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And coming in that instant she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

Judg 4:4-6 “Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, was judging Israel at that time. And she would sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the mountains of Ephraim. And the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.”

2 Kings 22:14-20 So Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Achbor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. (She dwelt in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter.) And they spoke with her. Then she said to them, "Thus says the LORD God of Israel, 'Tell the man who sent you to Me, "Thus says the LORD: 'Behold, I will bring calamity on this place and on its inhabitants -- all the words of the book which the king of Judah has read --  because they have forsaken Me and burned incense to other gods, that they might provoke Me to anger with all the works of their hands. Therefore My wrath shall be aroused against this place and shall not be quenched.'"' But as for the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the LORD, in this manner you shall speak to him, 'Thus says the LORD God of Israel: "Concerning the words which you have heard --  because your heart was tender, and you humbled yourself before the LORD when you heard what I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants, that they would become a desolation and a curse, and you tore your clothes and wept before Me, I also have heard you," says the LORD. Surely, therefore, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace; and your eyes shall not see all the calamity which I will bring on this place."'" So they brought back word to the king.

Acts 21:7-10 And when we had finished our voyage from Tyre, we came to Ptolemais, greeted the brethren, and stayed with them one day. On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.

Acts 2:17-18 “And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; and they shall prophesy.” ~ NKJV

These are some of the passages that come to mind, I will post others if I think of them.

~ Theophilus
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2009 - 9:18PM #8
Theo
Posts: 4,691

Here is another verse...


Phil 4:2-3


I implore Euodia and I implore Syntyche to be of the same mind in the Lord. And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life. - NKJV

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5 years ago  ::  Oct 09, 2009 - 12:21AM #9
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Shut up and listen, be still and watch. Then you will know if your minister is being Godly or not. Entrust the matter to God and to the regulating mechanism of your church. A godly bishop or godly deacons and other Church officers will bring the matter to the fore.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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