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5 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2009 - 7:23AM #1
Godman
Posts: 1,123

www.aina.org/news/20090905054024.htm


I read this article on how Muslims were now targeting Buddhists in Thailand.  It seems to me that Muslims have pretty much targeting Buddhists for quite awhile.  How do you respond to all this beheading in Allah's name?  KWinters, how do you think about this?  Is this suffering something that one should endure without defense?


"If Thailand doesn't do more to respond to daily intimidation and the ethnic cleansing of Buddhists in Southern Thailand then clearly the situation is going to get even worse. It is also important to point out that radical Sunni Islamists in Indonesia and the Philippines, alongside global jihadists, could join the fray if this crisis continues to follow the same path.

This hatred is inspired by Mohammed because he stated in the Hadiths to not only kill infidels (non-Muslims) but that Muslims will be rewarded for killing infidels.

Therefore Islamists follows the sayings of Mohammed and in Hadith 9:4 Mohammed stated "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection." Mohammed also stated in Hadith 9:50, 57 that "No umma (a member of the Muslim community) should be killed for killing a kafir (an infidel) … Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." "


Is there a place where Jesus advocates the beheading of infidels, the keeping of sex slaves, or the  extermination of a people?


(I cannot discuss nor defend children on this board, as the subject is massively censored.  Children & infanticide are off limits.)

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2009 - 8:10AM #2
Eudaimonist
Posts: 2,036

Sep 8, 2009 -- 7:23AM, Godman wrote:

I read this article on how Muslims were now targeting Buddhists in Thailand.  It seems to me that Muslims have pretty much targeting Buddhists for quite awhile.



Which Muslims?  All Muslims?  Or a certain group of Muslims?


How do you respond to all this beheading in Allah's name?



How do you respond to the Nazi belt buckle that reads "Gott mit uns" (God (is) with us), essentially declaring God to be on the side of the Nazis?


There is no point to the belt buckle except to reassure Christian Nazi soldiers that they are doing God's work.  Jesus has often been invoked in warfare to comfort soliders in their wartime killing.  This was certainly done in the Crusades.


Sadly, killing has often been done in God's name, and it isn't just the Muslims.


This hatred is inspired by Mohammed because he stated in the Hadiths to not only kill infidels (non-Muslims) but that Muslims will be rewarded for killing infidels.



This is an oversimplification of Mohammed's views on warfare.  The Koran is much like the Bible in that you can read into it almost whatever you want.  If you want to read justifications for killing the infidel, you can find the quotes to do this.  If you want to read injunctions against killing the infidel, you can also find the quotes to do this.


 


eudaimonia,


Mark

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2009 - 8:25AM #3
Abner1
Posts: 6,251

Godman wrote:


>  How do you respond to all this beheading in Allah's name?


We've already answered those questions numerous times.  Any people who do such things are evil and should be opposed, no matter what their religious beliefs are.  (I realize that this is not the 'all Muslims are evil' answer you want to hear to validate your hatred of all Muslims.)


> Is there a place where Jesus advocates the beheading of infidels, the keeping of sex


> slaves, or the  extermination of a people?


The Bible has many things like that advocated in the Old Testament.  For example, in Samuel the Lord orders the people of Israel to completely wipe out the Amalekites, man, woman, and child - the complete extermination of a people.  Since Christians believe that the Jewish God is the same as the Christian God, this leaves them with a number of awkward choices, such as believing that the Old Testament is wrong, believing that genocide is OK when their God orders it, or (most popular option) ignoring the issue entirely.  I will note that if Jesus and God are the same being (it depends on your version of the doctrine of the Trinity), this might even qualify as Jesus saying to commit genocide; it definitely counts as God saying it if you believe that the Bible is an accurate depiction of God.


As for sex slaves, there is a section in the Old Testament (forgive me if I don't go and dig it up unless it becomes important) where the Israelis are ordered to slaughter another tribe, except they are allowed to bring home any virgin girls to use as wives ... except that if the wife displeases them, they may throw the wife out afterwards.  That sounds pretty close to sex slaves IMO.


In short, the Old Testament has plenty of places in it where it orders various unsavory activities, including genocide, so you're not in any position to point accusing fingers at someone else's "Holy Books".  Personally I prefer not having to be in the position to support *any* genocide, and oppose them all equally, but (as previously noted) that's just not what you want to hear, so I doubt you'll acknowledge this time either that I oppose evil Muslims just as strongly as you do, I just don't claim that all Muslims are evil or that all Christians or Jews are not.


I hold everyone to the same standards, regardless of their religion or lack thereof.  I don't know why this isn't good enough for you, but apparently it isn't.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2009 - 9:39AM #4
Abner1
Posts: 6,251

By the way, in response to Godman's constant complaints about being censored:


Beliefnet is a private organization, not part of the government, so it has greater ability to decide what may or may not be said through its services.  (Neither freedom of speech nor freedom of the press requires that the media must deliver your messages.)  You either disagree with Beliefnet's policies *or* you feel that the local staff are not carrying out those policies properly.  If you belief the problem is with the local staff, it is your right (and possibly responsibility) to report your issues to them so they can be informed of the problem and, if they feel it is indeed a problem, correct it.  I will note that I have had my own issues with the moderation here, reported them, and found that Beliefnet had no problem with the moderation.  In other words, the local moderators are apparently carrying through their work in accordance with Beliefnet policy, which is why I stopped bringing up the issue of their behavior years ago in this forum.  They are just doing their jobs according to Beliefnet policy.  If you wish to change their behavior, you will have to convince Beliefnet to change their policies.  Good luck with that, especially as they *have* recently changed their policies to accommodate your needs: Namely, they created a "Hot Topics" forum where the moderation is much more lax.  I do not think that any of the topics you have complained about being censored on are off limits there, and invite you to post them there where you can speak your mind freely and not worry about Beliefnet censoring you to the degree it does here.


Your complaints about *us* censoring you, on the other hand, are ridiculous.  You are acting like a person who goes up to the counter in a restaurant and demands a free refill, then gets angry and lashes out at everyone else (staff *and* other customers) when the staff explains that they do not provide free refills.  If the staff are truly carrying out the policies of the restaurant (and that seems to be the case here), it is not the staff's fault that they are not giving you your desired free refill.  And it is *certainly* not the fault of the other customers that you are not getting a free refill (and we are not getting a free refill either!).  If you wish to start getting free refills in the future, either convince the restaurant to start giving free refills, or (if they do have a free refills policy) convince them to retrain or fire the errant staff.  Don't just keep whining at the staff and the other customers; go and do something productive!


My own experience is that the restaurant just doesn't give free refills, and after I thought about that for a bit, I decided the meal was worth coming to the restaurant anyway, and stopped bothering the local staff.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2009 - 11:36AM #5
mountain_man
Posts: 38,062

Sep 8, 2009 -- 7:23AM, Godman wrote:

I read this article on how Muslims were now targeting Buddhists in Thailand.



You don't like the competition? Or do you believe it is alright for so called christians to target those of other religions but not the Muslims?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2009 - 12:10PM #6
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,000

Sep 8, 2009 -- 7:23AM, Godman wrote:

(I cannot discuss nor defend children on this board, as the subject is massively censored.  Children & infanticide are off limits.) 


 There is a board set aside for the discussion of abortion with appropriate rules for that topic.  There are several boards for discussions of homosexuality with appropriate rules for that topic.  This board is not one of them.  You may discuss children & infanticide in the context of a discussion of atheism, but you assume any atheist position on any permitted topic at your peril.


  jcarlinbn


Community Host


thanx J'C for hosting the host. 


 

Jcarlinbn, community moderator
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2009 - 5:47PM #7
steven_guy
Posts: 11,564

Sep 8, 2009 -- 7:23AM, Godman wrote:


www.aina.org/news/20090905054024.htm


I read this article on how Muslims were now targeting Buddhists in Thailand.  It seems to me that Muslims have pretty much targeting Buddhists for quite awhile.  How do you respond to all this beheading in Allah's name?  KWinters, how do you think about this?  Is this suffering something that one should endure without defense?


"If Thailand doesn't do more to respond to daily intimidation and the ethnic cleansing of Buddhists in Southern Thailand then clearly the situation is going to get even worse. It is also important to point out that radical Sunni Islamists in Indonesia and the Philippines, alongside global jihadists, could join the fray if this crisis continues to follow the same path.

This hatred is inspired by Mohammed because he stated in the Hadiths to not only kill infidels (non-Muslims) but that Muslims will be rewarded for killing infidels.

Therefore Islamists follows the sayings of Mohammed and in Hadith 9:4 Mohammed stated "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection." Mohammed also stated in Hadith 9:50, 57 that "No umma (a member of the Muslim community) should be killed for killing a kafir (an infidel) … Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." "


Is there a place where Jesus advocates the beheading of infidels, the keeping of sex slaves, or the  extermination of a people?


(I cannot discuss nor defend children on this board, as the subject is massively censored.  Children & infanticide are off limits.)





Now if there were no religions, there would be none of these problems.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2009 - 4:21AM #8
Eudaimonist
Posts: 2,036

Sep 8, 2009 -- 5:47PM, steven_guy wrote:

Now if there were no religions, there would be none of these problems.




That's true.  There would be another set of problems.


 


eudaimonia,


Mark

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2009 - 4:29AM #9
Blü
Posts: 23,983

Godman


Buddhists have a pretty good press when it comes to tolerance and non-violence.


However, Buddhism is a spectrum, from the non-monastic atheistic types of Western Buddhism to the thoroughly theist modes of much Eastern Buddhism, which often looks and feels like a wing of Hinduism.


Some conservative (right-wing) Eastern Buddhists can be as vicious, intolerant, murderous and ugly as any other kind of fundy.  Buddhists of that kind did much to provoke the violence and bloodshed with Muslim Thais in the south of Thailand, for example, and the role of the conservative Buddhist establishment, certainly including many high religious leaders, in the recent Sri Lankan civil war (officially against the unlovable Tamil Tigers, but unsurprisingly resulting in massive discrimination against the Tamil minority generally) is notably vile.


But just because fundy Buddhists promote violence and genocide, and just because fundy Christians pollute the Christian waters with their  defecations (Who'll murder Chavez?  No niggers!  Screw the Jews!  Death to gays, abortionists and liberals!) and just because fundy Muslims commit horrendous crimes, is no reason for the intelligent onlooker to condemn the whole of their respective tribes.


What do these malicious enemies of humanity have in common?  That question's a no-brainer - they're all fundamentalists.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2009 - 6:42AM #10
Godman
Posts: 1,123

Steven Guy:


"Now if there were no religions, there would be none of these problems."


Well there are religions, even atheistic religions.  Communists have killed hundreds of millions in their atheistic non-belief.


KWinters is a Buddhist and espouses Buddhist principles.  I'm curious how she thinks about self-defence.  Christians have fought back and held territory aginst the Islamic jihad.


JC:


I try my best to stay away from abortion.  Doesn't that mean birth control is off limits too?  The entire Christian idea of fetal life representing an infinite number of possible future progeny is out by precluding any discussion of bortion.  I don't see how one can discuss a Christian perspective on life, without bringing up their perspective on life.


Atheists as far a I can tell do not agree with the Christian perspective on life.

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