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4 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2009 - 3:56PM #1
andrewcyrus
andrewcyrus
Posts: 4,239

Here is an excellent source of prophecying of the Messiah.


books.google.com/books?q=%22messianic+pr...


 

Moderated by Bunsinspace on Aug 12, 2010 - 01:50AM
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 11:02AM #2
rocketjsquirell
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 11,977

Bah humbug!


Please stop reading Jewish sources through a backward looking Christian eye.


thank you.
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 12:01PM #3
river8101
river8101
Posts: 5,150

But Christians read all of the TaNaKh through a backward looking Christian eye.  That's why they've got it so mixed up and all wrong.   Most don't know a word of ancient Hebrew and most of the authors that they read don't know either. 


In addition, Josephus is not considered a reputable historian by scholars. His remarks about Masada are highly questionable.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 2:04PM #4
LeahOne
LeahOne
Posts: 14,488

Jospehus' remarks abotu many topics are not considered authoritative....especially the supposed comments about Jesus which are later interpolations.
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 3:22PM #5
Miguel_de_servet
Miguel_de_servet
Posts: 16,876

Leah


Aug 31, 2009 -- 2:04PM, LeahOne wrote:

Josephus' remarks about many topics are not considered authoritative ... especially the supposed comments about Jesus which are later interpolations.


Really? Don't tell me!


MdS

Revelation is above, not against Reason

“The everlasting God is a refuge, and underneath you are his eternal arms ...” (Deut 33:27)
“Do you have an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his?” (Job 40:9)
“By the Lord’s word [dabar] the heavens were made; and by the breath [ruwach] of his mouth all their host.” (Psalm 33:6)
“Who would have believed what we just heard? When was the arm of the Lord revealed through him?” (Isaiah 53:1)
“Lord, who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” (John 12:38)
“For not the hearers of the law are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.” (Romans 2:13)
“Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.”(Romans 13:8)
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 3:51PM #6
rocketjsquirell
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 11,977

Mario


Really it is true, the Jesus references in Josephus' works were written by someone other than the person who wrote the rest of it. The use of language is different. It is sort of like if I tried to  write as you. People could tell the difference. 


None of that matters, however, since whether or not there was a historical Jesus and exactly what and who he was  really doesn't matter if you are a Christian. The important thing is  the Jesus myth (by which I mean story and not anything  derogatory) or myths contained in the Christian Gospels, through which the Christian finds his religious outlook. If one accepts the Jesus myth, then  everything else must be interpreted to support that narrative.  This is why Christians read the Jewish scriptures not in search  of the message of those scriptures but for a presaging of Jesus. It is all perfectly understandable and for those of us who are Jewish and not Christian annoying as all get out.
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 4:15PM #7
river8101
river8101
Posts: 5,150

"Josephus's story is sparing and probably biased and incorrect in at least some details, though the archeological findings of the Yadin expedition bore out major features of the story. There was a fort, there were defenders. Human remains were found of a few dozen individuals, but not of the over 900 persons."


www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Massada.htm


 

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 10:25PM #8
Bunsinspace
Bunsinspace
Posts: 5,234

Aug 30, 2009 -- 2:13PM, andrewcyrus wrote:


...Well most of the ones I read were coming from the Prophet Isaiah of honest jewish descent and transcription.





BS"D


I would hardly call the unattributed citations of Adventist apologia "honest jewish descent and transcription."  Michael Scheifler's website, for example,  from which your references are quoted is a curious admixture of various Christian doctrines intermingled with liberal amounts of pure and unabashed poppycock (in the most literal sense.)   Such contorting of text and historical reality does not qualify as "honest" in any accepted sense of the word, except perhaps Orwellian doublespeak.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2009 - 12:42PM #9
andrewcyrus
andrewcyrus
Posts: 4,239

Aug 31, 2009 -- 10:25PM, Bunsinspace wrote:


Aug 30, 2009 -- 2:13PM, andrewcyrus wrote:


...Well most of the ones I read were coming from the Prophet Isaiah of honest jewish descent and transcription.





BS"D


I would hardly call the unattributed citations of Adventist apologia "honest jewish descent and transcription."  Michael Scheifler's website, for example,  from which your references are quoted is a curious admixture of various Christian doctrines intermingled with liberal amounts of pure and unabashed poppycock (in the most literal sense.)   Such contorting of text and historical reality does not qualify as "honest" in any accepted sense of the word, except perhaps Orwellian doublespeak.




 


Obviously buns your ability to debate the truth of honest Judaism is severly lacking and has denigrated into taking shots at the messenger. I consider the truth something that doesn't get debated and your remarks prove this.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2009 - 12:47PM #10
andrewcyrus
andrewcyrus
Posts: 4,239

Aug 31, 2009 -- 3:22PM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:


Leah


Aug 31, 2009 -- 2:04PM, LeahOne wrote:

Josephus' remarks about many topics are not considered authoritative ... especially the supposed comments about Jesus which are later interpolations.


Really? Don't tell me!


MdS




 


Did Jospehus prophecy regarding Jesus the Messiah.. Thats interesting and misleading since he came after Jesus.  The contradictory ideas that Leah puts forth are called cognitive distortions that aren't relevant to the topic or the time frame of this discussion.
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