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Switch to Forum Live View Seventh-day Adventists Disapprove of Jesus
5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 2:41PM #21
RayGarton
Posts: 2,417

Let's be honest, here, Sincerly.  At least I will be.  You're not "sticking to scripture."  You're using scripture.  There's a difference.

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
-- Steve Weinberg
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 9:32PM #22
djconklin1950
Posts: 1,185

>Nowhere is this claim made in the scriptural account of Christ's death. 


Who said it was found in Scripture?


Andrews (1891): 528


"Then answered all the people, His blood be on us and on our children." At this moment, about to give sentence, Pilate could not give up the poor satisfaction of mocking the Jews in what he knew well to be a tender point-their Messianic hopes. He cries out, "Behold your king." His contemptuous words only bring back the fierce response, "Away with Him; crucify Him." Still more bitterly he repeats, "Shall I crucify your king?" The answer of the chief priests, for the people are not said to have joined in it, "We have no king but Cæsar," was an open renunciation of their allegiance to Jehovah, and of the covenant which He had made with the house of David, (2 Sam. vii. 12.) Thus had the Jews been led, step by step, not only to reject their Messiah, to prefer a robber and murderer before Him, to insist mercilessly that He should be put to a most shameful death, but even to accept and openly proclaim the Roman emperor as their king. This was the culminating point of national apostasy.


Farrar (1874): 639


And now mark, for one moment, the revenges of History. Has not His blood been on them, and on their children? Has it not fallen most of all on those most nearly concerned in that deep tragedy? Before the dread sacrifice was consummated, Judas died in the horrors of a loathsome suicide. Caiaphas was deposed the year following. Herod died in infamy and exile. Stripped of his Procuratorship very shortly afterwards, on the very charges he had tried by a wicked concession to avoid, Pilate, wearied out with misfortunes, died in suicide and banishment, leaving behind him an execrated name. The house of Annas was destroyed a generation


640


later by an ***, and his son was dragged through the streets, and scourged and beaten to his place of murder. Some of those who shared in and witnessed the scenes of that day-and thousands of their children-also shared in and witnessed the long horrors of that siege of Jerusalem which stands unparalleled in history for its unutterable fearfulness. "It seems," says Renan, "as though the whole race had appointed a rendezvous for extermination." They had shouted, "We have no king but Cæsar!" and they had no king but Cæsar; and leaving only for a time the fantastic shadow of a local and contemptible loyalty, Cæsar after Cæsar outraged, and tyrannised, and pillaged, and oppressed them, till at last they rose in wild revolt against the Cæsar whom they had claimed, and a Cæsar slaked in the blood of its best defenders the red ashes of their burnt and desecrated Temple. They had forced the Romans to crucify their Christ, and though they regarded this punishment with especial horror, they and their children were themselves crucified in myriads by the Romans outside their own walls, till room was wanting and wood failed, and the soldiers had to ransack a fertile inventiveness of cruelty for fresh methods of inflicting this insulting form of death. They had given thirty pieces of silver for their Saviour's blood, and they were themselves sold in thousands for yet smaller sums. They had chosen Bar-Abbas in preference to their Messiah, and for them there has been no Messiah more, while a murderer's dagger swayed the last counsels of


641


their dying nationality. They had accepted the guilt of blood, and the last pages of their history were glued together with the rivers of their blood, and that blood continued to be shed in wanton cruelties from age to age. They who will, may see in incidents like these the mere unmeaning chances of History; but there is in History nothing unmeaning to one who regards it as the Voice of God speaking among the destinies of men; and whether a man sees any significance or not in events like these, he must be blind indeed who does not see that when the murder of Christ was consummated, the axe was laid at the root of the barren tree of Jewish nationality. Since that day Jerusalem and its environs, with their "ever-extending miles of grave-stones and ever-lengthening pavement of tombs and sepulchres," have become little more than one vast cemetery-an Aceldama, a field of blood, a potter's field to bury strangers in. Like the mark of Cain upon the forehead of their race, the guilt of that blood has seemed to cling to them--as it ever must until that same blood effaceth it. For, by God's mercy, that blood was shed for them also who made it flow; the voice which they strove to quench in death was uplifted in its last prayer for pity on His murderers. May that blood be efficacious! may that prayer be heard!

When the critics have proven to be so wrong, so many times, and on some really simple stuff, why should we trust them on the more complex?
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 30, 2009 - 7:24AM #23
RayGarton
Posts: 2,417

Who said it was found in Scripture?


Ah, so you don't believe it's necessary for Ellen White to be supported by scripture?  You don't think it's a problem that she contradicts scripture?  That's very telling, DJ.  Whenever someone refers to Ellen White as a prophet in your direction, you snap back that you've never claimed she's a prophet.  But you're a Seventh-day Adventist -- a very involved, devout one from what you've written on this forum and on others -- so obviously you do believe she's a prophet, and if you say otherwise, you're lying, and you know it.  Again.  (I suspect god reads this forum, too, DJ, so in the even that he just might read your posts, you might be careful how you respond to that -- providing you give a damn what god thinks of your actions.)  So, clearly you dismiss the bible's requirements of and tests of a prophet of god and you maintain that Ellen White is a prophet even though she disagrees with and contradicts scripture.  It follows, then -- if one were to use logic, which I know is virtually unheard of on this particular forum -- that Ellen White's writing is your scripture and not the bible (this would explain your constant, obsessive, fanatical defense of her).  Obviously, the bible doesn't even figure into this equation for you.  All that's needed is for other people to agree with Ellen and that makes her right.  Very telling.

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
-- Steve Weinberg
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 30, 2009 - 1:33PM #24
djconklin1950
Posts: 1,185

>so you don't believe it's necessary for Ellen White to be supported by scripture?


She is supported by Scripture as Dr. Veltman's study shows.


>You don't think it's a problem that she contradicts scripture?


No contradiction has ever been proven to be true. See www.whiteestate.org/issues/contradiction...


>But you're a Seventh-day Adventist -- a very involved, devout one from what you've written on this forum and on others -- so obviously you do believe she's a prophet,


ROFL!  Just because I expose liars doesn't mean that a) "you're a Seventh-day Adventist -- a very involved, devout one" nor does it mean b) "you do believe she's a prophet".  I guess one of the hallmarks of being able to write fiction is to ignore facts and logic.


>clearly you dismiss the bible's requirements of and tests of a prophet of god


How could it be "clearly" when none have ever been presented?


>you maintain that Ellen White is a prophet


I've never done that--you lied again.


>even though she disagrees with and contradicts scripture.


No proof to support that bit of propaganda.


>this would explain your constant, obsessive, fanatical defense of her


I don't defend her--I expose and attack the lies that are told (much easier position to take).


>All that's needed is for other people to agree with Ellen and that makes her right.


No, it makes you wrong.  So, when you lie repeatedly, why should anyone listen to you on anything?

When the critics have proven to be so wrong, so many times, and on some really simple stuff, why should we trust them on the more complex?
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2010 - 12:37PM #25
Shubee
Posts: 535

Thanks for repeatedly displaying your willful blindness. It is important  that passersby of this forum see how Seventh-day Adventists unfairly  respond to reasonable criticisms.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 08, 2010 - 2:13AM #26
sincerly
Posts: 4,052

Jul 7, 2010 -- 12:55PM, Shubee wrote:

  Thanks for repeatedly displaying your willful blindness. It is important that passersby of this forum see how Seventh-day Adventists unfairly respond to reasonable criticisms. 




Shubert, if it was reasonable, then there wouldn't be the """organized program of hate and false information" which comes from your site." And the "passers-by" who are Truth-seekers can and will be acceptance of the Truth-----being led by the Holy Spirit.


 Those who are seeking twisted lies and false information will seek out your site which is filled with such.      It is because we are not Blind that discernment of your lies stand out like a sore thumb.


Multiple postings will not make your false claims truth. 

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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