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Flag Shubee July 20, 2009 1:31 PM EDT

Here is an interesting Spirit of prophecy statement that tells me that Jesus isn't appreciated, welcome or even liked in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Ellen G. White wrote:

How did men treat Christ when He came? . . . "He came unto his own, and his own received him not" (John 1:11). Thus it is today. This history is being repeated, and will be repeated again and again before the Lord shall come in the clouds of heaven. —TMK 54.


Note how perfectly Sister White's statement agrees with Christ's standard for passing the Investigative Judgment, which is solely a test on how we treat His unappreciated representatives.

Matthew 25:31-46
“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
“Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

How is Christ Treated in the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

Flag Utilyan July 20, 2009 5:59 PM EDT

I think you should go to the absolute worst church you can find ,Shubee.........


 


Then God could brag and say "WOW this guy realley does trust me."


 


Poor God.......    he ain't got many faithful Jobs   (Paradox- the name "job" and as in work.....works =)


 


Cause I pick on God everyday that you always looking for the best faith/church.  


I told God he needs to send you like......5 Jesuses......    But God is like "now hold on!!!"


 


So you know if the devil is talking to you.........your either in big doo doo or doing something right.


 


You know one thing I can do that God cant?


Gamble!  =)


Unless God just let me win those hands.........I dunno God is pretty sneaky.

Flag sincerly July 20, 2009 6:58 PM EDT

Jul 20, 2009 -- 1:31PM, Shubee wrote:


Here is an interesting Spirit of prophecy statement that tells me that Jesus isn't appreciated, welcome or even liked in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Ellen G. White wrote:

How did men treat Christ when He came? . . . "He came unto his own, and his own received him not" (John 1:11). Thus it is today. This history is being repeated, and will be repeated again and again before the Lord shall come in the clouds of heaven. —TMK 54.



 Note how perfectly Sister White's statement agrees with Christ's standard for passing the Investigative Judgment, which is solely a test on how we treat His unappreciated representatives.



Eugene, another example of your mis-using(erroneous interpretation and application) excerpts from EGW.
 


Here is the context:



That I May Know Him (1964), page 54, paragraph 1



Chapter Title: The Sons of God



But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. John 1:12.


How did men treat Christ when He came? . . . "He came unto his own, and his own received him not" (John 1:11). Thus it is today. This history is being repeated, and will be repeated again and again before the Lord shall come in the clouds of heaven. The deceptions of Satan will be upon those who dwell on the earth....


"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God." . . . After fitting up this world as the dwelling place of man, God looked upon it, and rejoiced in it, pronouncing it very good. So He will accept of and rejoice in the reformation wrought out by those who, receiving Christ as their Saviour, have obtained power to become the sons of God. . . .


The first chapter of Colossians shows us the heights to which it is our privilege to attain. We may be "filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding," walking "worthy of the Lord," "being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins" (Colossians 1:9-14).


Is there not woe enough in this sin-stricken, sin-cursed earth to lead us to consecrate ourselves to the work of proclaiming the message that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16)? This earth has been trodden by the Son of God. He came to bring men light and life, to set them free from the bondage of sin. He is coming again in power and great glory to receive to Himself those who during this life have followed in His footsteps.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


 Eugene,  your:"""""Here is an interesting Spirit of prophecy statement that tells me that Jesus isn't appreciated, welcome or even liked in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.""""" is a LIE.

Flag Shubee July 20, 2009 7:37 PM EDT

Jul 20, 2009 -- 6:58PM, sincerly wrote:

Here is the context:


He is coming again in power and great glory to receive to Himself those who during this life have followed in His footsteps.


I agree. That's the test for salvation. I believe that justifies my commentary, How is Christ Treated in the Seventh-day Adventist Church?


 

Flag andrewcyrus July 20, 2009 8:55 PM EDT

Seventh Day Adventists are the only ones who recognize Jesus as LORD OF THE SABBATH, and give him the status of creator.


With that being said, Shubee your title is offensive/spam and shows the extent of libel in your aberrational thought process. I disapprove of the false witness that IS exhibited in your posts.  


 


For those interested in going to the source of SDA beliefs here is #4


 


1. Holy Scriptures:
The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)


 4. Son:
God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)


 


Sorry shubee Jesus is in charge of the judgment not you.


 


www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/in...


 


 

Flag sincerly July 20, 2009 11:58 PM EDT

Jul 20, 2009 -- 7:37PM, Shubee wrote:


Jul 20, 2009 -- 6:58PM, sincerly wrote:

Here is the context:


He is coming again in power and great glory to receive to Himself those who during this life have followed in His footsteps.


I agree. That's the test for salvation. I believe that justifies my commentary......   





Eugene,  That which your topic was about was this accusation: """""Here is an interesting Spirit of prophecy statement that tells me that Jesus isn't appreciated, welcome or even liked in the Seventh-day Adventist Church."""""". That is your LIE.


 


The ones in the context who are spoken of are  seen in that omitted sentence by you,"""The deceptions of Satan will be upon those who dwell on the earth...""". NOT the SDA CHURCH WHICH BELIEVE JESUS AND ACKNOWLEDGE HIM AS GOD THE SON AND REDEEMER OF MANKIND..


YOUR POST HAVE LEFT YOU NO "WIGGLE ROOM".  They reveal your false beliefs and erroneous accusations.

Flag Shubee July 21, 2009 12:31 AM EDT

Does anyone else see the amazing consistency of my words?

Jul 20, 2009 -- 1:31PM, Shubee wrote:

Here is an interesting Spirit of prophecy statement that tells me that Jesus isn't appreciated, welcome or even liked in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Ellen G. White wrote:


How did men treat Christ when He came? . . . "He came unto his own, and his own received him not" (John 1:11). Thus it is today. This history is being repeated, and will be repeated again and again before the Lord shall come in the clouds of heaven. —TMK 54.


Note how perfectly Sister White's statement agrees with Christ's standard for passing the Investigative Judgment, which is solely a test on how we treat His unappreciated representatives.


Here is the context:


He is coming again in power and great glory to receive to Himself those who during this life have followed in His footsteps.


I agree. That's the test for salvation. I believe that justifies my commentary, How is Christ Treated in the Seventh-day Adventist Church?


Here's the clincher.  Sister White claimed that God "again and again" made the comparison to her that "the trials of the children of Israel, and their attitude just before the first coming of Christ … illustrate the position of the people of God in their experience before the Second Coming of Christ." That fact supports TMK 54 and justifies my commentary, How is Christ Treated in the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

Flag GRobit625 July 21, 2009 12:36 AM EDT

Hi Shubee, if you don't mind me asking, what is your faith background?

Flag Shubee July 21, 2009 12:40 AM EDT

Jul 21, 2009 -- 12:36AM, GRobit625 wrote:


Hi Shubee, if you don't mind me asking, what is your faith background?



I was raised SDA, baptized into the Adventist church at the age of 13 and never disfellowshiped.

Flag andrewcyrus July 21, 2009 2:59 AM EDT

Dear Shubee,


I thought it was the RCC that placed man above God and disapproved of JESUS AUTHORITY. I thought they even believed they could call Jesus down from heaven and eat his body in wafers and drink his real blood in the wine?


 


Kinda weird and vampiristic really.. Now what would JESUS think of this?


 


Boy you are on to something..

Flag Shubee July 21, 2009 9:30 AM EDT

Jul 21, 2009 -- 2:59AM, andrewcyrus wrote:

I thought it was the RCC that placed man above God and disapproved of JESUS AUTHORITY.


You are obviously unaware of the testimony of Jesus. The papist spirit is alive and well in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. For example, sincerly approves of the papist methods of the leaders of the Texas Conference and Richardson SDA Church and their sidestepping of Christ's explicit instructions.

Jul 19, 2009 -- 12:11PM, sincerly wrote:

Jesus was the one who said to look for those who pose as sheep and in reality are wolves.  It is no secret belief that all are to be aware and expose such. If they can't be convinced of their erroneous views-----as your own "witness article" attests to-----and the continuous posts here on these forms verify, then they are to be excluded from the members by whatever means are available.


In other words, if church leaders are ashamed of the testimony of Jesus (Matthew 18:15-17) and dispute the wisdom of Paul (1 Timothy 5:20), then they are free to use Satan's methods?

Are Seventh-day Adventists using Satan's methods?
The Presumption of Popery
Should Seventh-day Adventist leaders exalt themselves as if they were Popes?
Holy Father, Rescind Your Agreement


That's from page 2 of the thread, Seventh-Day Adventism Is Just Like Judaism.

Flag andrewcyrus July 21, 2009 10:17 AM EDT

Shubee wrote,


You are obviously unaware of the testimony of Jesus. The papist spirit is alive and well in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. For example, sincerly approves of the papist methods of the leaders of the Texas Conference and Richardson SDA Church and their sidestepping of Christ's explicit instructions.


Andy> I am aware that the Jesuit oath takers have infiltrated the website with huge amounts of anti-sda propaganda.


 


How do you Shubee as professed SDA account for your topic?


"Seventh Day Adventists disapprove of Jesus."


 When we all know they don't?


 Does this look familiar?


"My son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman Catholics to be a Roman Catholic, a seventh day adventist to the seventh day adventists, and to be a spy even among your own brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be a Calvinist; among other Protestants, generally to be a Protestant, and obtaining their confidence, to seek even to preach from their pulpits, and to denounce with all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and even to descend so low as to become a Jew among Jews, that you might be enabled to gather together all information for the benefit of your Order as a faithful soldier of the Pope."


 


What does disembler mean?


 



Definition of Disembler


Dis*sem"bler (?),







n.







One who dissembles; one who conceals his opinions or dispositions under a false appearance; a hypocrite.

 


 


It is the weakest sort of politicians that are the greatest dissemblers.

Bacon.

 


 


Priests, princes, women, no dissemblers here.

Pope.

 


Syn. -- Dissembler, Hypocrite. A person is called a dissembler with reference to his concealment of his real character, and a hypocrite with reference to his assumption of a false character. But hypocrite is the stronger word, being commonly used to characterize a person who is habitually insincere and false, especially one who makes professions of goodness when his aims are selfish and his life corrupt.


 


 


 



- Webster's Unabridged Dictionary (1913)


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

Flag Shubee July 21, 2009 11:52 AM EDT

Jul 21, 2009 -- 10:17AM, andrewcyrus wrote:

I am aware that the Jesuit oath takers have infiltrated the website with huge amounts of anti-sda propaganda.


The testimony of Jesus is not anti-sda propaganda but thanks for revealing so explicitly that you are opposed to His Witness.

Jul 21, 2009 -- 10:17AM, andrewcyrus wrote:

How do you Shubee as professed SDA account for your topic?

"Seventh Day Adventists disapprove of Jesus."

When we all know they don't?


Please forgive my training as a professional mathematician. The language that I'm most familiar with purposely ignores obvious exceptions of measure zero. Yes, there are true Christ-followers in Adventism, as mentioned in the Spirit of prophecy compilation The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism, but they have no discernable influence in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Does this look familiar?

"My son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman Catholics to be a Roman Catholic, and to spy even among your own brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a Reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be a Calvinist; among the Protestants, generally to be a Protestant; and obtaining their confidence to seek even to preach from their pulpits and to denounce with all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and to descend so low as to become a Jew among the Jews, that you might be enabled to gather together all information for your Order as a faithful soldier of the Pope."

Dis*sem"bler (?), n. One who dissembles; one who conceals his opinions or dispositions under a false appearance; a hypocrite.


Yes. That's you and sincerly. I just finished saying that "sincerly approves of the papist methods of the leaders of the Texas Conference and Richardson SDA Church and their sidestepping of Christ's explicit instructions" but the evidence I cited for you is like water running off a duck's back.

How is your practice of not honestly facing the powerful light of the Spirit of prophecy, reality and proof, not dissembling?

Flag sincerly July 22, 2009 12:19 AM EDT

Jul 21, 2009 -- 12:40AM, Shubee wrote:


Jul 21, 2009 -- 12:36AM, GRobit625 wrote:


Hi Shubee, if you don't mind me asking, what is your faith background?



I was raised SDA, baptized into the Adventist church at the age of 13 and never disfellowshiped.





From your own acknowledgement----Your evidence???   """I imagined that the senior pastor would reprove them in my presence for dragging their feet and not allowing me to be accepted into membership for the previous six months."


"Your "never disfellowshiped" is a lie. and it was your continuing in the same mode of undermining/falsely accusing those who opposed your diverting/discordant actions concerning the SDA Faith as currently which eventually lead to your arrest for trespassing and banning from Church Property.


You are not a Seventh day Adventist. Again, that "sheep's clothing" image.

Flag Utilyan July 23, 2009 3:18 PM EDT



Look im a catholic and I suppose that makes me a papist.    


If sincerly ever tried to be a catholic i'd slappem upside his head.


 


God isn't worried bout which faith but THE FAITH.    When I say THE FAITH im not talking about religion but the sincere trust between one and God.


 


Hey I got a couple questions maybe you saintly folks could answer.


 


What does he mean resist not evil?


 


 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain


 


Does this mean if I ask you folks to post one thing nice about each other you will post two?


 


 


42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.


 


I asketh of you folks that you post a nice thing about each other......so maybe I can find comfort that you folks are doing this for God.


 


 


 


 


=====


Matthew 5



38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:


   39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


   40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.


   41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.


   42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.


   43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.


   44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


   45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.


   46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?


   47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?


   48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.




Flag sincerly July 23, 2009 11:22 PM EDT

Jul 23, 2009 -- 3:18PM, Utilyan wrote:



Look im a catholic and I suppose that makes me a papist.    


If sincerly ever tried to be a catholic i'd slappem upside his head.


 God isn't worried bout which faith but THE FAITH.    When I say THE FAITH im not talking about religion but the sincere trust between one and God.


 



Utilyan, I'm (c)atholic as well, But not Catholic. And in the catholic church of GOD there are no "papists".


God isn't worried ----period. It is disobedient persons to HIS WILL who need to worry to the point of Repentance or Resign themselves to their promised reward.  


Utilyan Wrote: Hey I got a couple questions maybe you saintly folks could answer.


 (1)What does he mean resist not evil?


(2)And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.            Does this mean if I ask you folks to post one thing nice about each other you will post two?


 (3)Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.


 Utilyan, To those sayings which imply force from and enemy, one is to be compliant(but not to disobey GOD)  Notice Rom. 12:19-21, " Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.  Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.  Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


  The principle in three is seen in the exodus, they went away after "borrowing" from the Egyptians.even those Brethren who "sold themselves as slaves" for six years were not to go out empty. "Charity" is an attribute of GOD(LOVE/GRACE).


 


 


 


Flag RayGarton July 28, 2009 4:22 PM EDT

Here is an interesting Spirit of prophecy statement that tells me that Jesus isn't appreciated, welcome or even liked in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.


Of course he isn't -- he disagrees with the Word of Ellen.

Flag sincerly July 28, 2009 11:10 PM EDT

Jul 28, 2009 -- 4:22PM, RayGarton wrote:


Here is an interesting Spirit of prophecy statement that tells me that Jesus isn't appreciated, welcome or even liked in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.


Of course he isn't -- he disagrees with the Word of Ellen.





Says Ray, but wrong as usual in your conclusions.



Sons and Daughters of God (1955), page 196, paragraph 2



Chapter Title: We Face the Future With Courage



We are now in a time when we are to stand steadfast for the truth. We are to cherish love for souls, but never, never are we to surrender the least vital point of truth, for it is by maintaining truth, pure, unadulterated truth, that we can at this time bring honor and glory to Jesus Christ our Prince. The Word is the bread of life, and in the Word Christ's disciples are represented as eating and drinking the flesh and the blood of Christ,--making His Word a part of their lives. No lie is of the truth. Truth will stand the test in the time of false theories, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end. . . .


 Let us exercise faith in God, and keep close to the side of Christ in following His Word. The Lord will teach His people if they will be taught. We can stand where we can hear the instruction of Christ. We have a living God and a living Christ. Whole legions of devils are watching their opportunities to get hold of human minds, but if we keep close to the Word, we shall not be overcome. "Wherefore," said Paul to Timothy, "I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of hands. For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."


We need to have a living faith in Jesus Christ. We need to exercise faith, that when the enemy comes in like a flood, the Lord will lift up a standard for us against him. A heart true to God is often in prayer. Do not let one wave of discouragement come over you. We must give our thoughts to the contemplation of the character and the works of God, teaching Christ's words. Be of good courage. Let your courage and your constant reliance upon Jesus Christ inspire in others belief and increased faith and hope.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


 

Flag RayGarton July 29, 2009 3:41 AM EDT

Says Ray, but wrong as usual in your conclusions.


No, not "says Ray" -- says the bible.  You know -- that book you claim to believe in?  But only, it seems, by way of Ellen White.  One example of many.  On page 739 of Desire of Ages, Ellen describes the Jewish witnesses of Christ's crucifixion this way:


"Looking upon the smitten Lamb of God, the Jews had cried, 'His blood be on us, and on our children.' That awful cry ascended to the throne of God. That sentence, pronounced upon themselves, was written in heaven. That prayer was heard. The blood of the Son of God was upon their children and their children's children, a perpetual curse."


Nowhere is this claim made in the scriptural account of Christ's death.  According to that account, Christ's blood was not a curse on the heads of those Jews and their descendants.  In fact, Jesus himself said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."  Christ's words conflict with what Ellen White wrote above.  The scripture wasn't good enough for Ellen White -- she wasn't happy with what was there.  So she added her own embellishments -- which contradict the words of Jesus Christ.


But I'm sure you'll go with Ellen's words, Sincerly.  She's your girl, and you're stickin' with her.


 

Flag sincerly July 29, 2009 1:53 PM EDT

Jul 29, 2009 -- 3:41AM, RayGarton wrote:


Says Ray, but wrong as usual in your conclusions.


No, not "says Ray" -- says the bible.  You know -- that book you claim to believe in?  But only, it seems, by way of Ellen White.  One example of many.  On page 739 of Desire of Ages, Ellen describes the Jewish witnesses of Christ's crucifixion this way:


"Looking upon the smitten Lamb of God, the Jews had cried, 'His blood be on us, and on our children.' That awful cry ascended to the throne of God. That sentence, pronounced upon themselves, was written in heaven. That prayer was heard. The blood of the Son of God was upon their children and their children's children, a perpetual curse."


Nowhere is this claim made in the scriptural account of Christ's death.  According to that account, Christ's blood was not a curse on the heads of those Jews and their descendants.  In fact, Jesus himself said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."  Christ's words conflict with what Ellen White wrote above.  The scripture wasn't good enough for Ellen White -- she wasn't happy with what was there.  So she added her own embellishments -- which contradict the words of Jesus Christ.


But I'm sure you'll go with Ellen's words, Sincerly.  She's your girl, and you're stickin' with her.


 



Ray, you are doing a little shifting there. Eugene was claiming EGW said,  """Jesus isn't appreciated, welcome or even liked in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.""" to which you agreed.  I presented excerpts showing you both wrong.


Now you "switch" to a different event and claim you were not wrong. However, here is the scriptural verse which declares you still wrong.

Matt. 27:25, "Then answered all the people, and said, His blood [be] on us, and on our children."


Now add Peter's speech and the reaction. Acts2:37-38, "Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."


What was the reaction of the unrepentant  and continued rebellious? Acts 5:28, "Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us." 


That council were the one's who demanded the crucifixion and said, "His blood be upon us and our children".  And the record continues with them giving permission to round up all "followers of the way". so they could be stoned as Stephen was.


Jesus pronounced this sentence upon the Nation of Israel just prior to Crucifixion:


Matt. 23:37-38, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. "     Ray, the worldly nations have given "Israel" National status, but GOD's Israel is made up of Believers from all Nations.  Jesus came unto HIS own and was rejected. HIS BLOOD is still upon them.(and all who reject HIM)


Yes, Jesus did say, "Forgive them, they know not what they do".  As above, Peter Revealed the means by which "ALL---WE SINNERS CAN HAVE RECONCILIATION------REPENT and be baptized(crucify self be buried with HIM and arise in Faith and submission to HIS WILL----The "BORN AGAIN".)


 (AND I AM STICKING WITH THE SCRIPTURES; THE AUTHORITY IN ALL CASES.)

Flag RayGarton July 29, 2009 2:41 PM EDT

Let's be honest, here, Sincerly.  At least I will be.  You're not "sticking to scripture."  You're using scripture.  There's a difference.

Flag djconklin1950 July 29, 2009 9:32 PM EDT

>Nowhere is this claim made in the scriptural account of Christ's death. 


Who said it was found in Scripture?


Andrews (1891): 528


"Then answered all the people, His blood be on us and on our children." At this moment, about to give sentence, Pilate could not give up the poor satisfaction of mocking the Jews in what he knew well to be a tender point-their Messianic hopes. He cries out, "Behold your king." His contemptuous words only bring back the fierce response, "Away with Him; crucify Him." Still more bitterly he repeats, "Shall I crucify your king?" The answer of the chief priests, for the people are not said to have joined in it, "We have no king but Cæsar," was an open renunciation of their allegiance to Jehovah, and of the covenant which He had made with the house of David, (2 Sam. vii. 12.) Thus had the Jews been led, step by step, not only to reject their Messiah, to prefer a robber and murderer before Him, to insist mercilessly that He should be put to a most shameful death, but even to accept and openly proclaim the Roman emperor as their king. This was the culminating point of national apostasy.


Farrar (1874): 639


And now mark, for one moment, the revenges of History. Has not His blood been on them, and on their children? Has it not fallen most of all on those most nearly concerned in that deep tragedy? Before the dread sacrifice was consummated, Judas died in the horrors of a loathsome suicide. Caiaphas was deposed the year following. Herod died in infamy and exile. Stripped of his Procuratorship very shortly afterwards, on the very charges he had tried by a wicked concession to avoid, Pilate, wearied out with misfortunes, died in suicide and banishment, leaving behind him an execrated name. The house of Annas was destroyed a generation


640


later by an ***, and his son was dragged through the streets, and scourged and beaten to his place of murder. Some of those who shared in and witnessed the scenes of that day-and thousands of their children-also shared in and witnessed the long horrors of that siege of Jerusalem which stands unparalleled in history for its unutterable fearfulness. "It seems," says Renan, "as though the whole race had appointed a rendezvous for extermination." They had shouted, "We have no king but Cæsar!" and they had no king but Cæsar; and leaving only for a time the fantastic shadow of a local and contemptible loyalty, Cæsar after Cæsar outraged, and tyrannised, and pillaged, and oppressed them, till at last they rose in wild revolt against the Cæsar whom they had claimed, and a Cæsar slaked in the blood of its best defenders the red ashes of their burnt and desecrated Temple. They had forced the Romans to crucify their Christ, and though they regarded this punishment with especial horror, they and their children were themselves crucified in myriads by the Romans outside their own walls, till room was wanting and wood failed, and the soldiers had to ransack a fertile inventiveness of cruelty for fresh methods of inflicting this insulting form of death. They had given thirty pieces of silver for their Saviour's blood, and they were themselves sold in thousands for yet smaller sums. They had chosen Bar-Abbas in preference to their Messiah, and for them there has been no Messiah more, while a murderer's dagger swayed the last counsels of


641


their dying nationality. They had accepted the guilt of blood, and the last pages of their history were glued together with the rivers of their blood, and that blood continued to be shed in wanton cruelties from age to age. They who will, may see in incidents like these the mere unmeaning chances of History; but there is in History nothing unmeaning to one who regards it as the Voice of God speaking among the destinies of men; and whether a man sees any significance or not in events like these, he must be blind indeed who does not see that when the murder of Christ was consummated, the axe was laid at the root of the barren tree of Jewish nationality. Since that day Jerusalem and its environs, with their "ever-extending miles of grave-stones and ever-lengthening pavement of tombs and sepulchres," have become little more than one vast cemetery-an Aceldama, a field of blood, a potter's field to bury strangers in. Like the mark of Cain upon the forehead of their race, the guilt of that blood has seemed to cling to them--as it ever must until that same blood effaceth it. For, by God's mercy, that blood was shed for them also who made it flow; the voice which they strove to quench in death was uplifted in its last prayer for pity on His murderers. May that blood be efficacious! may that prayer be heard!

Flag RayGarton July 30, 2009 7:24 AM EDT

Who said it was found in Scripture?


Ah, so you don't believe it's necessary for Ellen White to be supported by scripture?  You don't think it's a problem that she contradicts scripture?  That's very telling, DJ.  Whenever someone refers to Ellen White as a prophet in your direction, you snap back that you've never claimed she's a prophet.  But you're a Seventh-day Adventist -- a very involved, devout one from what you've written on this forum and on others -- so obviously you do believe she's a prophet, and if you say otherwise, you're lying, and you know it.  Again.  (I suspect god reads this forum, too, DJ, so in the even that he just might read your posts, you might be careful how you respond to that -- providing you give a damn what god thinks of your actions.)  So, clearly you dismiss the bible's requirements of and tests of a prophet of god and you maintain that Ellen White is a prophet even though she disagrees with and contradicts scripture.  It follows, then -- if one were to use logic, which I know is virtually unheard of on this particular forum -- that Ellen White's writing is your scripture and not the bible (this would explain your constant, obsessive, fanatical defense of her).  Obviously, the bible doesn't even figure into this equation for you.  All that's needed is for other people to agree with Ellen and that makes her right.  Very telling.

Flag djconklin1950 July 30, 2009 1:33 PM EDT

>so you don't believe it's necessary for Ellen White to be supported by scripture?


She is supported by Scripture as Dr. Veltman's study shows.


>You don't think it's a problem that she contradicts scripture?


No contradiction has ever been proven to be true. See www.whiteestate.org/issues/contradiction...


>But you're a Seventh-day Adventist -- a very involved, devout one from what you've written on this forum and on others -- so obviously you do believe she's a prophet,


ROFL!  Just because I expose liars doesn't mean that a) "you're a Seventh-day Adventist -- a very involved, devout one" nor does it mean b) "you do believe she's a prophet".  I guess one of the hallmarks of being able to write fiction is to ignore facts and logic.


>clearly you dismiss the bible's requirements of and tests of a prophet of god


How could it be "clearly" when none have ever been presented?


>you maintain that Ellen White is a prophet


I've never done that--you lied again.


>even though she disagrees with and contradicts scripture.


No proof to support that bit of propaganda.


>this would explain your constant, obsessive, fanatical defense of her


I don't defend her--I expose and attack the lies that are told (much easier position to take).


>All that's needed is for other people to agree with Ellen and that makes her right.


No, it makes you wrong.  So, when you lie repeatedly, why should anyone listen to you on anything?

Flag Shubee July 7, 2010 12:37 PM EDT

Thanks for repeatedly displaying your willful blindness. It is important  that passersby of this forum see how Seventh-day Adventists unfairly  respond to reasonable criticisms.

Flag sincerly July 8, 2010 2:13 AM EDT

Jul 7, 2010 -- 12:55PM, Shubee wrote:

  Thanks for repeatedly displaying your willful blindness. It is important that passersby of this forum see how Seventh-day Adventists unfairly respond to reasonable criticisms. 




Shubert, if it was reasonable, then there wouldn't be the """organized program of hate and false information" which comes from your site." And the "passers-by" who are Truth-seekers can and will be acceptance of the Truth-----being led by the Holy Spirit.


 Those who are seeking twisted lies and false information will seek out your site which is filled with such.      It is because we are not Blind that discernment of your lies stand out like a sore thumb.


Multiple postings will not make your false claims truth. 

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