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Switch to Forum Live View The 70 Week/Years Prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27
5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2009 - 10:47AM #1
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808

The 70 Week/Years Prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27


This prophetic frame of Daniel 9:24-27 ought to be interepreted on a double manner. Both ways starting on the same point in History: The destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians in 586 BCE.

Both facets of the frame belong to two different visions of Daniel. First, the angel is commanded to make Daniel understand about the end of the exile in Babylon, whose 70 years of Jeremiah 25:11 are referred to as 70 weeks in that vision; being one week equal to one year. Historically, the exile lasted 70 years and not 490 years. (Dan. 9:23)

The second vision concerns with events that befall God's People in the days to follow. (Dan. 10:14) The computation of the time on this second vision follows the method of days as years

The 70 week/years of the exile started officially in 586 BCE with the destruction of the Temple. I say officially because Jews were being exiled even before the final destructon. Verse 24 is read as a preface to the frame which starts properly with verse 25.

So, "From the utterance of the 'word' that Jerusalem was to be rebuilt until one who is anointed and a leader, there shall be 7 weeks." Utterance of the word, not commandment or decree as KJV translates. The original in Hebrew brings "Davar" which means prophetic word and not decree or edit. And that prophetic word was uttered by Jeremiah according to chapters 30 and 31, and 33:7,8. And the text does not say after but from. From the utterance of the word.

Jerusalem is used as synonym for Israel, the People, the Community, the nation. It was to be rebuilt as we have from Jeremiah 31:4 and 33:7. And in a letter from Jeremiah to the exiles in Babylon, he explains when and where the rebuilding of Jerusalem should proceed: Right there and then. (Jer. 29:4-10)

"Until one who is anointed and a leader" according to the original and not as KJV brings: "Unto the Messiah, the Prince." That's quite another matter. So, until this anoint and leader, there will be 7 weeks or 49 years. From 586 BCE down through 49 years, we will be in 537 BCE when Cyrus, that anointed and leader, according to Isaiah 45:1-4, tried to effect the fulfilment of Jeremiah's prophectic word. (Ezra 1:1-4) But 70 years must be fulfilled according to Daniel 9:2, and in 537, we have only 49 years. How to account for the 21 years left?

It was familiar to Daniel that Judaism, symbolically, would apply protecting angels to various groups of human society or countries. Such angels would be represented not only as guardians of a country respectively, but also to guide them in wars according to Divine will.

So, Persia started the conquest of Babylon in 538 BCE. In 537, Cyrus prematurely, tried to force the fulfilment of the prophecy of Jeremiah by proclaiming the end of the exile. However, according to Jeremiah 29:10, "Only after 70 years have elapsed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill for you my promise to bring you back to this place." So, the injunction that 70 years had to be fulfilled of Daniel 9:2 is solved by another vision that Daniel had in chapter 10.

The war between Persia and Babylon was not really over in 537 BCE. The fight continued until 516, as we can see by the words in Daniel 10:13. "The Prince or angel of the Kingdom of Persia stood in my way. (Here speaks the angel of Babylon) for 21 days/years until finally Michael (the angel of Israel) came to help me." It was then that actually, the exile was over and the 70 years had been fulfilled. Remember that Michael had not come until the 70 years were over. Then, neither of the angels or princes of Persia and Babylon stood on each other's way. Israel was finaly free to return. The first part of Daniel's prophetic frame ends here.

The second part of that frame starts with Daniel 9:25, and at the same time of the first part: 586 BCE. The text does not say that the 62 weeks proceeds from the 7 weeks mentioned in the same verse. It simply says that "During 62 weeks it shall be rebuilt." Let's not forget that what is to be rebuilt since the beginning of the exile is the nation of Israel, whose process the author extends to his time. "In times of afflction" because of the captivity and difficulties to resettle the Land. Physically, Jerusalem, the city, or the walls, or the Temple, did not take so long to be rebuilt. In fact, the walls of Jerusalem took only 52 literal days, according to Nehemiah 6:15.

So, 62 weeks or 434 years will take us to 152 BCE when the High Priest Onias the Third was murdered. (II Mac. 4:30-38) The text says, "After 62 weeks an anointed shall be cut down when he does not possess the city." The High Priest is an anointed; and how about the statement, "when he does not possess the city?"


During the Hasmonian period, the High Priest would accumulate both the Pristhood and the Kingship offices. Onias the Third did not possess the Government of Israel, which was already at the hands of Antiochus Epiphanes, the leader whose people had come to desecrate the sanctity of the Sanctuary when they put up the horrible abomination. To finish verse 26, we have, "Then the end shall come like a torrent; and till the end there shall be war, the desolation that is decreed." This last sentence of verse 26 referss to the escalation of the Maccabean wars which culminated with the end of the Hellenistic oppression in Israel.

Having understood about the 62 weeks or 434 years which ended in 152 BCE with the beginning of the Antiocus persecutions of the Jewish People, triggered by the assassination of the High Priest Onias the Third, we now proceed with the description of the events of that one week or 7 years intercepted half-way by the abolition of sacrifices and oblations. In verse 27 we see that for one week or 7 years, he shall make a covenant with the many. This week starts right after the 62 weeks or 152 BCE.

So, the leader of that people who had come to desecrate the Sanctuary succeeded to make a covenant with the majority of Jews, because Israel was in fact in danger of becoming totally Hellenistic. (I Mac. 1:43) The upper class had practically adopted the Greek customs and style of life. Those who had not bowed to Baal would be the ones to bring the decreed ruin upon the terror. They were the Maccabees.

The Country was in a literal desolaton during that week or 7 years. Those who would not submit to the deliberations of Antiocus were constantly on the run, driving into hiding, wherever places of refuge they could find. (I Mac. 1:36-53; II Mac. 5:11-20)

Roughly after three years, in 148 BCE, the horrible abomination was erected upon the altar of holocausts, besides all the pagan altars built in the surrounding cities of Judah; and the sacrifices and oblations were abolished. (I Mac. 1:45,54)

During that week or 7 years, chaos had fallen upon Israel. Especially Jerusalem was completely ravaged. Massacres of young and old was the order of the day. One occasion, in the span of three days "80,000 were lost; 40,000 met violent death, and the same number were sold into slavery." (II Mac. 5:13,14) At the end of that week, those who later became known as the Maccabees, who remained loyal to the Covenant, took strong action despite all odds. (Dan. 11:32)

"A time, times, and a half," literally, a year, two years and a half year, had
also to be fulfilled according to Daniel 12:7. These are all references to that same week of Daniel 9:27. All to be counted from the day the horrible abomination was set up on the altar of holocausts till 145 when the altar was restored and the Temple rededicated. In a word Hanukkah.

The reference to the blessing on those who, patiently persevered until 1,335 days, means survival during that week of human devastation to see again the nation of Israel in full fledge. In fact, the restoration began in 145 BCE with the reconsecration of the Temple. (I Mac. 4:52,54)

The difference between 1,290 and 1,335 can be taken in terms of a year/day just to use commonsense. Therefore, 45 years from 145 BCE will take us to 100 BCE, roughly the time when the authors of both books of Maccabees and Daniel finished writing them. That was just about after the death of John Hircanus in 104 BCE, who had been rulling since 134 BCE.

Ben


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2009 - 11:47AM #2
Shubee
Posts: 524

Jun 27, 2009 -- 10:47AM, Ben Masada wrote:

70 years of Jeremiah 25:11 are referred to as 70 weeks in that vision;


No. That's not correct. You have misinterpreted the context.

"From the lesson of God’s chastisement with the Babylonian captivity, which by the words of the prophet Jeremiah was to be for 70 years, and in accordance with the covenant, if the Jews would still be unrepentant at the end of that time, God would then punish them 7 times more for their sins (Lev 26:18,21,24,28). The 7 times 70 years of Daniel 9:24 is therefore, by itself, a message that explains the vision. God has presented before the exiles in Babylon what events might transpire if they continued to transgress His commandments. This vision then is a warning, an illustration of the out-working of continued disobedience." The Ends of Time, p. 14.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2009 - 12:08PM #3
andrewcyrus
Posts: 4,253

 


Ben wrote;


Both facets of the frame belong to two different visions of Daniel. First, the angel is commanded to make Daniel understand about the end of the exile in Babylon, whose 70 years of Jeremiah 25:11 are referred to as 70 weeks in that vision; being one week equal to one year. Historically, the exile lasted 70 years and not 490 years. (Dan. 9:23)


 


Andy> As far as I know there is nothing in the bible to support  the one week for one prophetic year equation. However there are two scriptures that support the key of one day equalling one prophetic year.


"It is generally accepted here that you must use the day = year prophecy formula (Num 14:34, Ezek 4:6), yielding a time period of 490 years from start to completion."


 


biblelight.net/dan927.htm


 


Ben wrote;


whose 70 years of Jeremiah 25:11 are referred to as 70 weeks in that vision


 


Jeremiah wrote;


25V11 And this whole land shall be a desolation [and] an astonishment, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.


 Sorry Ben the jump from week to prophetic year was not part of Jer 25:11 reference. It was your own embellishment. What concerns me at this point in my own study, is the attitude that thinks to change God's own  plainly written word.


 


Ben,


Looks like you went on quite an expansion to support your own equation. However unsupported in the bible. I have read the popes explanation of why sunday is the sabbath and realize that a small deviation from the point of biblical truth can lead one on a deluge of fiction and mens ideas none of which is biblically supported.


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2009 - 8:09AM #4
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808

Jun 27, 2009 -- 11:47AM, Shubee wrote:


Jun 27, 2009 -- 10:47AM, Ben Masada wrote:

70 years of Jeremiah 25:11 are referred to as 70 weeks in that vision;


No. That's not correct. You have misinterpreted the context.

"From the lesson of God’s chastisement with the Babylonian captivity, which by the words of the prophet Jeremiah was to be for 70 years, and in accordance with the covenant, if the Jews would still be unrepentant at the end of that time, God would then punish them 7 times more for their sins (Lev 26:18,21,24,28). The 7 times 70 years of Daniel 9:24 is therefore, by itself, a message that explains the vision. God has presented before the exiles in Babylon what events might transpire if they continued to transgress His commandments. This vision then is a warning, an illustration of the out-working of continued disobedience." The Ends of Time, p. 14.




You are not the only one to constantly judge and accuse the Jews with being disobedient.  How about pointing where have we being disobedient? We were before the exile, but according to Ezekiel 22:15, we have purged our uncleanness in the exile. But Gentiles cannot stop judging and accusing the Jews with being disobedient. Can you point our sin? Myself, personally, I have been for many years trying to bring the true knowledge of God to the Gentiles. I do not understand where we have been disobedient.


And regarding the prophe of Daniel 9:24-27, there is no chance I have misinterpreted the context, because mine is a Jewish interpretation to this Jewish prophecy. Now, any interpretation by any non-Jewish source yes, it will be a misinterpretation.

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2009 - 8:37AM #5
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808



Jun 27, 2009 -- 12:08PM, andrewcyrus wrote:


 


Ben wrote;


Both facets of the frame belong to two different visions of Daniel. First, the angel is commanded to make Daniel understand about the end of the exile in Babylon, whose 70 years of Jeremiah 25:11 are referred to as 70 weeks in that vision; being one week equal to one year. Historically, the exile lasted 70 years and not 490 years. (Dan. 9:23)


 


Andy> As far as I know there is nothing in the bible to support  the one week for one prophetic year equation. However there are two scriptures that support the key of one day equalling one prophetic year.


Ben: You are mistaken Andy. Read Daniel 9:24. "Seventy weeks are decreed..." How many years did the exile last? Seventy years. Therefore, 70 weeks = 70 years. Now, you know that there is something in the Bible to support the one week for one prophetic year equation.


"It is generally accepted here that you must use the day = year prophecy formula (Num 14:34, Ezek 4:6), yielding a time period of 490 years from start to completion."


Ben: Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6 have nothing to do with Daniel 9:24. Somewhere else, 40 days to scout the land were given to mean 40 years. But in Daniel 9:24 70 weeks were given to mean 70 years. That's no general rule that one should equal a year. You say, "generally accepted here" by whom, Gentiles? You have forgotten that the Prophecy is Jewish and not Christian.


Ben wrote; whose 70 years of Jeremiah 25:11 are referred to as 70 weeks in that vision


 Jeremiah wrote; 25V11 And this whole land shall be a desolation [and] an astonishment, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.


Ben: As you can see, Jeremiah and myself do not contradicting each other.


 Sorry Ben the jump from week to prophetic year was not part of Jer 25:11 reference. It was your own embellishment. What concerns me at this point in my own study, is the attitude that thinks to change God's own  plainly written word.


Ben: So! Jeremiah is not saying that a day should be taken for a year.


 Ben,


Looks like you went on quite an expansion to support your own equation. However unsupported in the bible. I have read the popes explanation of why sunday is the sabbath and realize that a small deviation from the point of biblical truth can lead one on a deluge of fiction and mens ideas none of which is biblically supported.


Ben: Try again because you haven't proved anything against me.


 


 


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5 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2009 - 11:47PM #6
andrewcyrus
Posts: 4,253


Ben wrote;


Ben: You are mistaken Andy. Read Daniel 9:24. "Seventy weeks are decreed..." How many years did the exile last? Seventy years. Therefore, 70 weeks = 70 years. Now, you know that there is something in the Bible to support the one week for one prophetic year equation.

 


Andy> I don't make the mistake of attempting to interject my own writings into God's word. That appears to be the vanity of your own errant conclusion.

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2009 - 12:50AM #7
sincerly
Posts: 4,049


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Ben, Include the context of that verse and notice:Dan.9:23-27, "At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew [thee]; for thou [art] greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. "


What vision was perplexing Daniel? We have to return to Dan. 8:13-15.  We find the "70 weeks" to be a part of the larger 2300 days years of the people of GOD being trod under foot----the daily sacrifice, the transgression of desolation, and both the sanctuary and the host being trod underfoot.. 


Vs.24, reads in full: "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and [color=red] to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy"[/color.


The messiah is the only one who could "MAKE AN END TO SINS"----every Israeli  could only die for their own sin.(Ezek.14:14,16, 18, 20,22.)  That recociliation for iniquity required BLOOD-----the return to Jerusalem after the exile didn't satisfy the requirement as you contend. Nor does one see any activity by the Jewish Nation from the "return" to the present which even promises "everlasting Righteousness."


vs.25, "Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. " 


Those three magi which came and worshiped the "Messiah the prince" had been reading and understanding this prophecy.(They didn't worship "Israel".) The birth of the Messiah was many years after the rebuilding of the walls and Jerusalem---including the "temple". 69 Weeks=483 years(of that 490 years). The prophets describe the "troublous times".


No one is disputing that the exile lasted 70 years.  What continues to amaze is the continued rebellion and the refusal to heed the warnings and admonitions of the Prophets in face of the history of the Nation of Israel.


Ben Wrote: You have forgotten that the Prophecy is Jewish and not Christian.<<<<<<<<<<


Ben, the Prophecy was God's concerning what would happen to HIS rebellious and the "Remnant Faithful few" from the time of Daniel to the very end of the World.



 


Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2009 - 1:00AM #8
Shubee
Posts: 524

Jul 2, 2009 -- 8:09AM, Ben Masada wrote:

You are not the only one to constantly judge and accuse the Jews with being disobedient.  How about pointing where have we being disobedient?


Would you consider a discussion on the evils of Zionism? Then please note the testimony of Stephen Sizer in the following 2-part interview with Hank Hanegraaff:

Stephen Sizer 15 August 2006.
Stephen Sizer 16 August 2006.

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 04, 2009 - 2:22PM #9
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808

Jul 3, 2009 -- 1:00AM, Shubee wrote:


Jul 2, 2009 -- 8:09AM, Ben Masada wrote:

You are not the only one to constantly judge and accuse the Jews with being disobedient.  How about pointing where have we being disobedient?


Would you consider a discussion on the evils of Zionism? Then please note the testimony of Stephen Sizer in the following 2-part interview with Hank Hanegraaff:

Stephen Sizer 15 August 2006.
Stephen Sizer 16 August 2006.




Why don't you learn yourself and then discuss wherever you need with me? Don't recommend me links if I can't feedback to whoever wrote his or her opinions. You learn what they say and return to discuss with me what you understand.

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 04, 2009 - 2:28PM #10
andrewcyrus
Posts: 4,253

Ben wrote/


Therefore, 70 weeks = 70 years.


 


What bible scriptures states this?


 Unsupported means twisting God's word and setting yourself up as a standard above him.


have a great Sabbath


 


"Mat 24v24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
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