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Switch to Forum Live View The Prophet Like Moses
5 years ago  ::  Aug 14, 2009 - 11:34AM #31
LeahOne
Posts: 16,463

River, my thought in not putting my religion on my profile was, I want people to be able to tell from my words what I believe.


Some very few times, not labelling myself as a Jew may have allowed someone to read my words with a bit less prejudice - and possibly helped their understanding.


 


If we stay holed up over here, and never explain the truth about our beliefs and practices - how the heck are the well-meaning but ignorant ones going to learn any better? 

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 15, 2009 - 9:30AM #32
river8101
Posts: 5,564

Ben


Excuses, excuses.  It would make no difference.   You are merely saying what I've said all along.  You're afraid to post your religion for fear it would make some anti-Semites go after you.  (Or, you're just not a Jew.) Posting your religion isn't going to change anything.  If you post against what they believe (the Xtians) they will hate you whether you're a Jew or not.  But they will respect you if you have the guts to say who you are, whether they hate you or not, and revealing you are a Jew gives you a lot more leeway to argue your point from who you are, instead of creeping along the middle trying to pretend you're just somewhere in the middle.   That's cowardly.  If you want to tell them what you believe, you should do it as Clyde does.  They respect him, because he's not afraid of them, and he's not afraid to write what he believes and/or what he thinks of their beliefs.


 

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 15, 2009 - 2:40PM #33
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808

Aug 15, 2009 -- 9:30AM, river8101 wrote:


Excuses, excuses.  It would make no difference.   You are merely saying what I've said all along.  You're afraid to post your religion for fear it would make some anti-Semites go after you.  (Or, you're just not a Jew.) Posting your religion isn't going to change anything.  If you post against what they believe (the Xtians) they will hate you whether you're a Jew or not.  But they will respect you if you have the guts to say who you are, whether they hate you or not, and revealing you are a Jew gives you a lot more leeway to argue your point from who you are, instead of creeping along the middle trying to pretend you're just somewhere in the middle.   That's cowardly.  If you want to tell them what you believe, you should do it as Clyde does.  They respect him, because he's not afraid of them, and he's not afraid to write what he believes and/or what he thinks of their beliefs.


 




 


You have won. I have completed my profile. Now, let us see the difference it will make.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 19, 2009 - 6:21AM #34
river8101
Posts: 5,564

Leah, I don't feel holed up over here.  I have a specific reason for being here.  I'm not interested in arguing Judaism with Christians.  I am interested in arguing Judaism with other Jews who may be interested in MJ or J4J, etc.    Years ago when there were more people at B Net, I did post at the xtian forum, but I was attacked once so badly, by one poster, and then another joined in, that all three of us were sent to a special forum where you were supposed to "work things out."  I went there, and the other two jumped on me immediately.  I can't remember what the subject was about, but I told them if they were going to continue attacking me instead of discussing the subject I was leaving, they got mad and I left immediately.  I never went back. 


Years later, I got a note from Adelphe who remembered the incident, though she wasn't involved in it, and said she was sorry about what happened.  I was surprised to hear from her, because I didn't know her.  (The only thing we ever talked about  since then was baseball and JJill, a store we both shopped in.) We never discussed religion.   To this day, I can't even remember what the 3 of us were arguing about. But back then there were other Jews posting at the Xtian forum.  Howie posted there and a couple others.  (I'm going back at least 6-7- plus years ago.)   I go there once-twice a year just to read and see if they've modernized any, and I also read at the Catholic forum now and then.  They're more moderate than the fundies at the Xtian forum.  The only Jew I ever see at the Xtian forum is Clyde, but since I don't read there very often, I don't know if he posts there anymore or not.  I don't read all the threads, just a few.  And, remember, when Clyde  first came to B Net he was a xtian convert.  But at some time along the way he left xtianity and came back to Judaism.  Seemed like he had grown disgusted with xtianity for some reason, and from his posts it sounded like he had really had it with them.  I don't know why he left, because by then I was mainly posting over here, so I don't know the story, but  there were lots of posters over here on the first forum.  The Xtians never  bothered him over there, because they knew he would stand up to them.  


There used to be many more moderates at the xtian forum, but most of them left.  Now it seems to me most of them are fundies and pretty radical and you can't talk to people like that.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 19, 2009 - 6:53AM #35
river8101
Posts: 5,564

Ben Masada,


Wonderful.  It's time you came forth.  Christians will know for sure where you're coming from, as I sure didn't.  They'll appreciate it.  NOT.  They don't appreicaite anything about Jews or our religion. But I'm glad you put out your beliefs on your profile.  There's something about arguing from one's beliefs that makes it clear that you're saying what you truly believe and not fuzzing around.   And for those who don't post their religion, nor do they make it clear in their posts what they are, one doesn't know what they really believe or if they are arguing for or against a particular idea.  For quite sometime your posts puzzled me (and others) and we didn't know if you were a MJ, (since you posted on MJ  so freqently) and didn't tell us, or a real Jew or some kind of Hebrew Christian.


Ben, I originally posted this yesterday, Aug. 21, here after you posted your religion on your profile.  But somehow it landed at "Why Don't Messianics Post Here" with last week's date. 


This forum sure is screwed up.



Anyway,  I'm glad you have posted your religion on your profile.  I think it was the right thing to do.  Why hide?? 


I read your post as to why you think it's a good thing to discourage Jews from converting and that was a reason you were posting at the xtian forum, without posting your religion on your profile.  But over there, you're not going to find many Jews, if any, who are thinking of converting.  Those Jews usually always came here or go to the Jewish forums.  They convert in steps.  Instead of going straight to xtianity, they would go to MJ or UU or something like that.  And some would go to the Jewish forum and brag that they were converting.


Perhaps there are a few Jews that post on the Xtian forums, but by then it's often too late to change their minds.  Compared to many of us, you are new to B Net.  So we didn't know what religion you were.  From your posts, I thought you were a MJ.  It wasn't clear from your posts as you often defended their beliefs.  Also you claimed you were raised in Egypt, and that sounded unusual, since you you wrote English quite well, and all foreigners that I've come across at B Net did not write perfect English as you do.


Anyway, I'm glad you're coming out....  as they say.


 

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 19, 2009 - 12:08PM #36
Bunsinspace
Posts: 5,929

BS"D


OK, now that THAT's settled please reread BM's original post at the beginning of this thread.  It would appear to be in defense of Judaism.  I responded to points I disagreed with but I wholly agreed with the overall premise that there exists no evidence that the Christian messiah is derived from any Jewish source.


For me Jesus was Apollo plain and simple and any attempt to force Apollo into Judaism as was done at Nicea is strained at best.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2009 - 9:30AM #37
river8101
Posts: 5,564

Hi Buns,


You know I agree with that post for the most part, but sometimes it seems to veer off and I don't understand who he's talking to or what he means.  He seems to be answering someone, but who?  I don't know. 


Obviously, Iesous, Jesus, Yeshua, whatever name he has, was no messiah.  His modis operendi seems to be that he saves people from hell and brings them into heaven.  His saving powers have little to do with the real world, but some fantasy island, who knows where or when.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2009 - 5:28AM #38
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808

Aug 19, 2009 -- 6:53AM, river8101 wrote:


Ben, I'm glad you have posted your religion on your profile.  I think it was the right thing to do.  Why hide?? 


I read your post as to why you think it's a good thing to discourage Jews from converting and that was a reason you were posting at the xtian forum, without posting your religion on your profile.  But over there, you're not going to find many Jews, if any, who are thinking of converting.  Those Jews usually always came here or go to the Jewish forums.  They convert in steps.  Instead of going straight to xtianity, they would go to MJ or UU or something like that.  And some would go to the Jewish forum and brag that they were converting.


Perhaps there are a few Jews that post on the Xtian forums, but by then it's often too late to change their minds.  Compared to many of us, you are new to B Net.  So we didn't know what religion you were.  From your posts, I thought you were a MJ.  It wasn't clear from your posts as you often defended their beliefs. Also you claimed you were raised in Egypt, and that sounded unusual, since you you wrote English quite well, and all foreigners that I've come across at B Net did not write perfect English as you do.


Anyway, I'm glad you're coming out....  as they say.


 



 


Where on earth do I claim I was raised in Egypt? I have never been to such a place. I was born in Tucson, Arizona. I lived a few years in Brazil, returned to Los Angeles for another 20 years, and made Aliyah to Israel 20 years ago.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2009 - 5:40AM #39
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808

Aug 19, 2009 -- 12:08PM, Bunsinspace wrote:


BS"D


OK, now that THAT's settled please reread BM's original post at the beginning of this thread.  It would appear to be in defense of Judaism.  I responded to points I disagreed with but I wholly agreed with the overall premise that there exists no evidence that the Christian messiah is derived from any Jewish source.


For me Jesus was Apollo plain and simple and any attempt to force Apollo into Judaism as was done at Nicea is strained at best.




 


The origin of the Christian Messiah is in the Christ of Paul, an entity that he conceived in his Greek Diaspora of a Hellenistic Jew that he was. Jesus was but the medium he needed to impersonate his Christ and promote his Church, an old dream he had to succeed where Plato had failed: To build a community of a people governed by Ethics and with no need of laws, especially Jewish laws. As he realized that he would also fail, he turned his dream into a religion based on Replacement Theology.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2009 - 6:57AM #40
river8101
Posts: 5,564

Ben, I don't know what happened to the post where I said you posted  you came from Egypt.  I know I posted it here somewhere, but can't find it. Perhaps it disappeared to another forum like the other one did.  Maybe I have you confused with somebody else who claimed he was from Egypt and was very into secrets about himself.  When the forum changed last spring/winter?  a couple new people came on.  This person defended MJ but said he was a Jew.  I'll have to look around and see who he is, if I can find him.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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