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Switch to Forum Live View Hell=Violence;Karma & Rebirth=Non-Violence
5 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2009 - 5:55PM #1
HinduGuy
Posts: 373

I refuse to believe in a torture God, a God that would use physical violence to impart some sort of lesson. Recently there was this video of this young girl being punished in the Taliban area - held down by men while being brutally whipped! Is this what happens in hell and God is the whipper?


Let's take an example: A boy runs thru a store inspite of the admonishment of his father. Invariably he runs into something and breaks a product. In the Abrahamic view, God will either punish or choose to forgive. What kind of a punishment should the father use? A good whipping with the belt? It used to happen a lot in the olden days. By simply forgiving the child, has the kid leant anything?


Karma and Rebirth is the far better way, it forces one to take responsibilty for one's actions and also gives us the chance to make things better. If the father followed this method, he would make good the loss of the store owner, and then make the boy pay back the loss, by either withholding his allowance or by making the boy do some odd jobs. This is the right way - the boy learns his lesson. He learns the value of the product, the loss suffered by the store-owner. This is karma in essence.


Plus Rebirth gives us the greatest gift of all - The Gift of Life, over and over again! I sometimes feel sad for christians and muslims, they may have only one life left to live.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2009 - 8:39PM #2
Kevinponeill
Posts: 802

Jun 12, 2009 -- 5:55PM, HinduGuy wrote:


 I sometimes feel sad for christians and muslims, they may have only one life left to live.




Whether you know it our not you only have one life too!Laughing


Hindu-Guy, you "drop" these posts and never stay around to discuss! 


That is not what Beliefnet is about.  It is about diologue.


If you want to discuss Hindism in light of Progressive Christianity than ask question about Progressive Christianity, and reply to posts from us please.


Why isn't this life enough?  I believe once around is enough, and any more makes life seem less precious.  Why am I not correct?

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2009 - 10:16PM #3
HinduGuy
Posts: 373

I am sorry but I thought I do stick around to discuss.


One life is not enough because ours is a teacher faith. A Hindu's goal is not a flesh-happy heaven but Moksha, to reach a state of pure enlightenment, become a Buddha, and God is our Guru in this journey.


Besides why complain? As I posted, the Gift of Life is the greatest Gift one can receive is it not?


Please touch on the issue of a child misbehaving. In the olden days it was common to take the belt or other kinds of violent punishment. Today we recognize that way is wrong, we use non-violent methods as well as talking to our kids to teach the right values.


It is amazing that a faith, Hinduism, thousands of years old is teaching us values that are in common use today.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2009 - 10:28PM #4
SeraphimR
Posts: 9,890

I know that Buddhists have hells where all sorts of horrendous punishements are meted out.  I read a comic book for children which showed graphically the punishment of a butcher who prepared meat for human consumption.


I thought Hindus do too.

People with a mission to save the earth want the earth to seem worse than it is so their mission will look more important.


P.J. O'Rourke
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2009 - 9:34PM #5
HinduGuy
Posts: 373

"I know that Buddhists have hells where all sorts of horrendous punishements are meted out.  I read a comic book for children which showed graphically the punishment of a butcher who prepared meat for human consumption. I thought Hindus do too."


The problem is a great many books were written by people of long time ago, these are not evil people and some people think that these are god's words. These are ideas simply flying around. Wasn't the bible put together by a bunch of men meeting together and deciding what stays and what goes? Aren't there passages in the bible that makes your stomach churn? The problem with little details is that anyone could have written these words, obviously these are not God's words.


I try to stay away from the details - I look for the big picture.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2009 - 10:12PM #6
HinduGuy
Posts: 373

"Reality does not conform to our needs and wants.  Ideas that are justified by our wants or needs are "Infantile Wish Fulfillment".  This is a form of immature egotism, something your Faith is against"


LOL sorry I had to laugh about this - this coming from a religion that reserves the heaven for its members telling everyone else that they are going to hell if they are not christian, basically using God as a proselytizer. This is really rich.


 "Why should we believe (trust) that a person has more than one natural life?"


It is called a belief system. You believe in a bearded guy running a heaven and hell? And don't get me started on your religious rights view on evolution. I mean talk about clinging to backward ideas.


 "Reality does not care about our goals.  If there are mulitiple rebirths, and my goal is to have one life, does my goal make this a reality?"


As a Hindu we are bound by God's wishes for us, but yes God does respect our wishes. That is why I said i am sad for you because God will fulfil your wish for just one life. What you hope for will happen. As a Hindu I hope for the Gift of Life over and over again and my wish will be fulfilled. As a christian you believe that you have only one life, and that too will come to pass. 


"Yes. And it is precious because we have only one life.  Therefore we cherish it, and we have compassion on people whose lives are less fortunate because we know they only have one life."


Hmm, does compassion go out of the window because they have more than one life? What about having compassion for people whose lives are less fortunate? Where did that go? 


"If I am correct, and we only have one life, then your view undermines the preciousness of life, and the compassion one will feel for someone who life was less fortunate."


It's like saying my first kid was precious, the later kids I could do without?


"Like Untouchables?  Like Sati (widows being burned to death on funeral fires)? I think Ghandi would have disagreed with you"


Nothing to do with the thread, throwing mud at my religion huh? But I will answer it anyway.


You are making the classic mistake of looking at what is happening in a country and blaming the religion for it. I don't see how christ should be blamed for the acts of pedophiles within the church. For the same reason I opposed the cartoons on Prophet Mohammed, the man was dead and gone long ago, let's not blame religion for the acts of a few. I suppose you think terrorism is because of islam?


At one time preachers opposed marriage between blacks and whites saying that your bible god was against it. Excuse me but did the bible god stop saying that? Did they not also support slavery using the bible? Today they use the same bible against gays.


During the rwandan massacre, did you know that some pastors were leading the killing? These are evil people using the religion for their own evil purposes, religion has nothing to do with this.


By the way, Gandhiji was also a Hindu and I also oppose untouchabilityand sati, so I am not sure where we are disagreeing. strange use of words.


Please touch on the issue of a child misbehaving. In the olden days it was common to take the belt or other kinds of violent punishment. Today we recognize that way is wrong, we use non-violent methods as well as talking to our kids to teach the right values. It is amazing that a faith, Hinduism, thousands of years old is teaching us values that are in common use today.


I ask you again, isn't a non-violent way better than using a violent method like Hell? Rebirth is giving me an opportunity to take responsibility, an opportunity to make things right. 


I am asking you again, and I think you will continue to evade this issue, what would you do if your kid broke a product in a store? Is forgiving him or beating him your only choices?

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2009 - 6:28PM #7
HinduGuy
Posts: 373

Sorry for the late reply


You keep saying I misunderstand you guys but keep throwing Caste in my face. I am Hindu so I believe in caste? That's like saying you are white, so you must be a racist? You are hispanic, must be a low-paid worker?


And instead of directing you to a site so you can read about caste, let me explain this a bit. Caste originally started as a classification - if you were educated you were a Brahmin. Sage Vishwamitra, the teacher of God Rama, was originally a King - a Kshatriya or a warrior. After discovering the value of eduation, he became a Brahmin. What went wrong? IMHO, Arranged marriages. People started arranging marriages within one caste, and the practice continues even today. But thankfully the younger set and less and less inclined towards arranged marriages and so caste is breaking down. I myself, remained unmarried because to me undergoing an arranged marriages meant that I was feeding caste and so I refused to do so. So you see we Hindus come in all colors, just like well, people.


Simply saying go read something achieves nothing! What's the point of a discussion board then? I am supposed to find the answer to my question there? And if I don't, I am not reading it properly, right? A loser's argument.


Instead of giving me the run-around, you could have answered yes or no. You have a misbehaving child - your choices are


1. Forgive him 2. Give him a beating 3. Use softer methods - ground him.


I am looking for just a number, but I think I know the answer already.


The problem is that we mistake the true name for God - God's name is not Rama, Christ or Allah - Her name is Truth. Truth is God and God is Truth. Don't reject Truth just because it is coming from another religion.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2009 - 12:38PM #8
Stardove
Posts: 15,552

HinduGuy,


I know what Kevin has been saying is "This forum is a place to discuss Progressive Christianity". 


If members want to discuss the Hindu religion they would go to that forums listed under Hinduism.


Beliefnet is set up for members with many different forums.  This forum is for those who have an interest in learning what Progressive Christians beliefs are and those with progressive beliefs about Christianity to post.


From OP:  I refuse to believe in a torture God, a God that would use physical violence to impart some sort of lesson.


I believe most Progressive Christians would agree with your opening sentence.  You will have to go to another Discuss Christianity forum to find members who believe in a punishing God.


Beliefnet Moderator ~  Discuss Progressive Christianity

Beliefnet Community Wide Moderator ~ Peace Love Stardove
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The words I speak and write carry energy and power, so I choose them with care and clear purpose. 

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2009 - 6:52PM #9
HinduGuy
Posts: 373

I believe that closes the discussion. Nothing progressive when refusing to listen to fresh ideas - by limiting this discussion to a narrow version progressive christianity as you said, you limit the posts to members of this sect only.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2009 - 10:59PM #10
Stardove
Posts: 15,552

Jun 19, 2009 -- 6:52PM, HinduGuy wrote:


I believe that closes the discussion. Nothing progressive when refusing to listen to fresh ideas - by limiting this discussion to a narrow version progressive christianity as you said, you limit the posts to members of this sect only.




May today there be peace within. May you trust that you are exactly where you are meant to be. May you not forget the infinite possibilities that are born of faith in yourself and others. May you use the gifts that you have received, and pass on the love that has been given to you.


 

Beliefnet Community Wide Moderator ~ Peace Love Stardove
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The words I speak and write carry energy and power, so I choose them with care and clear purpose. 

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