Mr. Wichone posted the question before:

Why prove Maltheism wrong?

I say: Why Not??

Every form of belief is not beyond questioning. What makes Maltheism so special that makes it beyond questioning??

Maltheism deserves NO special treatment. 

People who believe in Maltheism have to assume on the outset that there is a God. I say this is a big assumption. 

If you guys are so sure about a God out there who is actively looking to get you, I want to hear the evidence. 

I do not want to hear "I had this or that bad situation". Bad situations happen to all human beings all the time at different times in our lives. Good things happen too. None of this is a proof that there is a Divinity out there. 

What I want to hear is unambiguous, positive, concrete proof or evidence that there is a God up there.

After any Maltheist provide me with any of this, then I am willing to seriously consider the Goodness, Badness, or neutrality of this God.

So Bring it on! 

I cannot wait to hear for this evidence!

Dear Wichone,

It is not all subjective, and you are wrong.

As an atheist I do not have to prove that God do not exist.  EXTRAORDINARY claims need EXTRAORDINARY evidence to back it up.

I am not the one making an extraordinary claim when I make an statement that I do not Believe in God. The reason I do not believe in GOD is simple: Nobody has presented to me extraordinary evidence for God existance (whether this God is good or bad, naughty or nice).

It is not all subjective as you say. I am not being subjective when I say I do not believe in God.

The moment you claim that God is around and kicking, and all you can supply as evidence for his existance is subjective evidence, then you are the one who is subjective, not me.

I am sorry that yo have gone throug a lot of crap in this life, and that deep inside you, you are honest in what you believe, but all you have supplied so far is just subjective.

I do not need to prove that imaginary beings do not exist because the only proove for the non-existance of imaginary beings is the lack of evidence for their existance.

The whole thing is as silly as you challenging me to provide evidence for the non-existance of the Invisible Pink Unicorn.   I do not need to provide the existance of this silly being because my only proof will be the lack of evidence for his existance.

The whole argument just suddenly becomes just plain silly and ridiculus.

I hope to hear from you soon.

This is Ricardo, the Guy who started the Post.

My Account was deleted from Belief net and nobody there has an answer for me, so I was forced to create a new account under a new name.

Could this have been the work of an evil being? I doubt it!

Somehow my account with beliefnet got busted and nobody has an answer for it. Everyone is clueless. So I took it upon myself to start a new login with a new e-mail, since it will not accept the old one. Is a pain in the butt!

I could become paranoid and start with a conspiracy theory that you had something to do with it, but I have no proof, and that whole thing will just be ridiculus in my opinion.

 I am actually glad that you decided to discuss this. I guess you are as bussy as me. I was hoping for a faster input from any of you guys, but late is better than never.

Your answer seams very honest so I will give you that you sincerely believe this and you are not outthere to deceive no one on purpose.

The reason that I wanted to have an honest discussion with you right at the start is that Maltheism to begin with is just disturbing.

If it was only that this is just personal opinion (or personal belief), then we will not be talking about it.

However, I read most of your threads, and maltheism is apparently out to recruit people, or gain followers, and when you guys started to push this, then it becomes my business to challange your claims.

For you to claim that God is evil you have to start with the premise that such a thing as GOD exist.

I will ASK once more. What is your evidence for the claim that God exist!

I will wait for you answer!

Best Regards,

Ricardo

I do not suppose to speak for all atheists, but I do not hold to any orthodoxy.  I only bow down to the thruths that my consciense scream to me.

I do not demand that you do not exist, or that any "good" God believing person exist.  As far as I know, there is no prozelitizing atheist groups around (Maybe there are, but I do not know any).

But the moment your group made your beliefs open in public forums and started to make followers,  then people like me, and so many others have the right to:

1) inquire more about your reasons for your belief.

2)Question your faith, or core of beliefs

3) Critisize in any type, shape, or form your beliefs.

That is the way it works, and you do not get to skip this part.  You and the people like you who honestly belief in Maltheism do not get to have a free pass and skip this part, collect $200, and get pass home.

And again, I do not apologize for making you go through this steps.

If I belief that evil little elves live in the atics of all old houses all over the World. I am probably just a lunitic, but I am entitle to my crazy belief.

But the moment that I start making my beliefs public, in public forums, and start getting followers, you have the right (and I will ad the duty, too), to start questioning my weird belief, and asking for evidence of why and how I come to my weird and crazy conclusion.

Now, I do belief that everyone has the right to what I call "the benefit of the doubt".

What about if I start giving you good evidence that my claims are thuth, and by following my steps, you can actually get a good glimps, or even capture one of those evil little green elves hiding in the atic of your home.

Then you can say: Holy Mother of God! Holy CRAP! this Shit is for real! This guy is not crazy! He is right and his group of followers are not nuts after all! they are onto something here!

But if all I offer is only subjective, unsubstantiated reasons, then me and my group are going to be exposed as people who profess a belief, but really do not have anything solid to substantiate it, and rightly so! and because of this, we are going to be saving the world from another nonsensical belief that in the future can cause, or can be use as an excuse to cause many evils.

So, even though you think you and your group are beyond questioning, I do not think so, and I invite you to be more skeptical about your views.

Personally, I do not have anything against you or anyone that believes like you, and you can keep believeing whatever you want, but you have to do it under the shadow of constant challenging of your faith or beliefs, by me an many others. 

So the way I see it you have 3 choises:

1) Keep believing what you do and come with good rational, solid evidence that will silence the critics.

2) Keep believing what you do and not have anything good to base it, and endure constant critics, without having anything to provide.

3) Quit that belief, and move on to believing in something with more solid ground to it.

It is your choise.

As long as you hold to a belief, you do not get to escape this, so get use to it. This works for anyone with any belief.

You do not own the whole market Place of ideas. they are outthere in the open and they are ups for grabs, and available to anyone, but the second you choose to buy any idea the price tag is : You have to able to defend this beliefs against any critizism and challenge.

The basic problem with Maltheism, as I see it, is that you have to believe in a God to start with (Never mind that he is an Evil Asshole).  You have to believe that there is a big guy in the sky running things around and somehow controlling everything.

The Problem when you think he is Good, is that you have a hard time coming to an explanation of why there is so much gratuitus evil: Natural Evil, Storms, Tsunamis, Earthquakes, and all this shit that has calim the lives of countless billions during the history of humankind.

The Problem if you think He is an Evil Bastard, is that you have a hard time explaining lots of Good things in life. Things we call Blessings, good fortune, Good luck, and most of all: Justice rendered to evil bastards, that vindicate the good and inocent people, that have been suffering through the actions of eveil people.

How do you explain that??

Think about this and let me know.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

Dear Wichone,

Since we are in a roll here, can you explain a little bit more this:

"My explanation for good is God likes worship a lot and wants to keep it.  If he gives evil total reign, he will end up killing all his worshipers.  If God didn't have the bait of good, he wouldn't have anything to attract worship."

Do you mean that good for an evil God is like bait? How so? can you give an example?

I will think an evil God will not allow good or will limit it into a virtual nothing! Not trying to give you hard time. Just want to understand what are you saying!

About the Maltheism personal forums, I Agree and I fully understand this now, so I have not gone to you forum over there anymore.  I apologize from the whole misunderstanding and I am just posting here (you can check if you want! I hope this is clear to you know.

I look forward to hear from you. I want to make sure that I understand where are you coming from, before I can make a critizisim or an objection to your faith!

Best Regards!

I'll have to buy my sister-in-law a pizza for turning me onto this site and allowing me access to her computer.This is a great topic.

I don't think Maltheism is qualified to be dismissed as irrational and false, in a world where Fundamentalism has such an egregious record of having committed mass murder and exampling blanket intolerance as a monotheist ideology for over 2000 years!

It seems to me whomever came up with the term, Maltheism, simply condensed all of the Testament belonging to the Hebrews and other passages as well, into one succinct observation regarding the kind of God personality that is described chapter and verse.

God in as much as declares himself malevolent, when he instructs those who believe in him to fear him and his wrath. And then chapter after chapter and verse after verse he proves why that is wisdom. God murders, God orders enslavement and infanticide, homicide, matricide, patricide, rape. The flood made him a mass murderer and that he promised to burn the worlds people to death the next time, proves he's a premeditated murderer which is what he was in the first place being God and all knowing, as the worlds people behaved as they did and with his tolerance and while he looked on.

Maltheism seems to me to simply describe in a few words what God is in 39 Books.

I think those that find God in the Bible don't really know where to look. That's not God in there. That's humans pretending to be God and succeeding in every respect because long after those that wrote the Bible are dust the majority of the worlds future continues to believe every word they said as Gospel.

You can't worship something on the page that is of a worse character than even Satan himself. The Bible is a better tool for atheists proof than it could be for those who know and love the real source that is worthy of the name, God.

I love this notion of Maltheism. It keeps the truth very simple.