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Switch to Forum Live View If Jesus Were Alive Today...
9 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2009 - 4:37PM #21
j_Rob
Posts: 506

If Jesus Christ were alive today, He would be pissed.  He would say something to this effect (though he would be far more eloquent):


"Dude, what have you done with my teachings?  I give you 'blessed are the meek' and 'love each other as I have loved you' and 'be perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect', and you take it and you screw it up like this?  Is THIS why I got nailed to a peice of wood?  So you could create schisms over instruments in church and how my Supper is celebrated?  So you can bomb abortion clinics?  So you can hate people in my Name?  Seriously?  Get out of here!"


As I said, something like that.


j_Rob

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9 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2009 - 4:49PM #22
Iwantamotto
Posts: 9,234

I think He'd be an architect or something for His day job and Youtube His messages (and promote increased online participation even for developing areas). :D

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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9 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2009 - 4:53PM #23
Xristocharis
Posts: 5,051


Hi Jon, thanks for your answer.  Okay then, if Jesus is alive today, was alive ever since the resurrection, then why has He not made himself known to us, especially in times of great trouble, like WWII or the ongoing unrest in the Middle East (His homeland) or now as we fall further and further into extremely disastrous economic times?


Just curious?


Beliefnet Sue




 


I believe Jesus does make Himself known, He's present in and through His Church, in and through the Sacraments, in and through our love for one another, in and through the reading and hearing of Scripture, in and through the poor, the sick, the hurting, the persecuted, the suffering, and the oppressed. I also believe that the Parousia will take place at the consummation of history, Jesus' Second Advent, in glory.


None of that, of course, may offer a substantially helpful answer for the very big question, "Why do bad things happen?"


But as a Christian who believes the Incarnation means some very big and important things, then I cannot help but look at the world around me and not see the presence of God; but not the presence of God in a warm, fluffy, happy way. It's the presence of the Cross, that wretched and anguish-laden instrument of suffering. Jesus is inseparably identified with the lowly and the weak, the sick and the unwell, the poor, the orphan, the rejected, the unwanted, the ones counted as worthless by the world. These are the most important people in the kingdom of God. The Cross means that God is not identified with power, but with suffering. The Cross means that God is not identified with the victorious sword-bearers of history, but with those whose lives have been made worse by the wretchedness of the sword and the bullet.


This is what gives me my ethos, this is foundational to the entire way i view morality and view how to act in relation to other people.


Why do bad things happen? That question exists whether or not Jesus rose from the dead, that question exists whether or not there is a God. I don't know why, I don't have answers to the most haunting of our philosophical questions, but I can follow the Way of Jesus, I can learn to imitate Him, I can seek to become a fellow crossbearer with Him, learn to identify myself with the weak and the lowly and the hated, and allow myself to be transformed in my very humanity into a person who loves and is merciful and kind. Then, I pray, Christ makes Himself present through me as well.


In other words, I can choose to act and go as far as my feet will take me to see other people suffer less. Even if I have to forsake my own life for that goal.


-Jon

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Hélder Câmara
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9 years ago  ::  Apr 04, 2009 - 7:11PM #24
Beliefnetsue
Posts: 33

Apr 4, 2009 -- 4:53PM, Xristocharis wrote:



Hi Jon, thanks for your answer.  Okay then, if Jesus is alive today, was alive ever since the resurrection, then why has He not made himself known to us, especially in times of great trouble, like WWII or the ongoing unrest in the Middle East (His homeland) or now as we fall further and further into extremely disastrous economic times?


Just curious?


Beliefnet Sue




 


I believe Jesus does make Himself known, He's present in and through His Church, in and through the Sacraments, in and through our love for one another, in and through the reading and hearing of Scripture, in and through the poor, the sick, the hurting, the persecuted, the suffering, and the oppressed. I also believe that the Parousia will take place at the consummation of history, Jesus' Second Advent, in glory.


None of that, of course, may offer a substantially helpful answer for the very big question, "Why do bad things happen?"


But as a Christian who believes the Incarnation means some very big and important things, then I cannot help but look at the world around me and not see the presence of God; but not the presence of God in a warm, fluffy, happy way. It's the presence of the Cross, that wretched and anguish-laden instrument of suffering. Jesus is inseparably identified with the lowly and the weak, the sick and the unwell, the poor, the orphan, the rejected, the unwanted, the ones counted as worthless by the world. These are the most important people in the kingdom of God. The Cross means that God is not identified with power, but with suffering. The Cross means that God is not identified with the victorious sword-bearers of history, but with those whose lives have been made worse by the wretchedness of the sword and the bullet.


This is what gives me my ethos, this is foundational to the entire way i view morality and view how to act in relation to other people.


Why do bad things happen? That question exists whether or not Jesus rose from the dead, that question exists whether or not there is a God. I don't know why, I don't have answers to the most haunting of our philosophical questions, but I can follow the Way of Jesus, I can learn to imitate Him, I can seek to become a fellow crossbearer with Him, learn to identify myself with the weak and the lowly and the hated, and allow myself to be transformed in my very humanity into a person who loves and is merciful and kind. Then, I pray, Christ makes Himself present through me as well.


In other words, I can choose to act and go as far as my feet will take me to see other people suffer less. Even if I have to forsake my own life for that goal.


-Jon




Hi Jon,


So you're saying that Jesus is with us in spirit, and in the spirits of the meek and the wretched and the good and the kind.


Some bad things happen because of natural forces - hurricanes. tornados, tsumanis, etcetera.  Some bad things happen because of man's tampering with the environment - droughts, floods, fires, etcetera.  And some bad things happen because of the self-serving choices that people make.  The choices to rape, kill, and take advantage of others in so many other ways.


I agree that as Christians - what Jesus did for us motivates us to live differently - and better than we would ever have without His sacrifice.  I wonder how many others would be willing to give up everything they have, including their very lives to make the lives of others better than they were before.


Thanks for elaborating.


Have a Blessed Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday.


Beliefnet Sue


 

"Just passing time, just passing through"
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9 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2009 - 7:44AM #25
Hatman
Posts: 9,954
First, Y'shua IS alive today; no "if."

What kind of man would He be?


Same kind He always was; obedient, humble, kindly, helpful, forgiving of all but blatant, arrogant hypocrites, especially ones who lead astray.

Where would He live?


Wherever His Father led Him to be.

What would He do for work?


Anything honest; being quite knowledgable, there is no field in which He would not excel.

What would He have studied in school?


Being One with Our Father, having access to all He has including His intelligence and wisdom(Omniscience, anyone?), obviates the need for study completely.

What would He believe about religion?


That if it doesn't teach you to love faithfully and truly, even the unlovable, it's useless.

About politics?


That justice should apply to all, equally, and that just weights and measures in regard to money are essential to prevent the machinations of Mammon, which only work by issuing lies in the form of a flood of irredeemable paper..

About the state of the world economy?


That the greedy bankers and their corporate allies are at the root of the evil debt-enslavement the vast majority of governments have fallen prey to, with the cascading effects upon their populations due to suppression of energy inventions, health cures, and many other suchlike devious crapola.

About the environment?


That we are here to be stewards of the earth, and to "husband" it with care.  Everyone capable of walking or moving about should do their part with diligence and enjoyment.

How would He be an activist?


By standing tall for truth, justice, and fair dealing with all.

What would He choose to fight for?


Love, using loving methods.

Or against?


The powers of Mammon, all deception, all suppression of useful and beneficial devices/health cures because some corporation's false god, "profit," is threatened, deliberate polluters, and bullies of all stripes.

And if you went looking for Him, where would you find Him on a Saturday night?


Depends on His Father's will for Him in that hour, but likely having a chat with a lost soul, whether rich or poor or somewhere in-between, showing him or her the way back Home.

Elucidation upon any of the above points available on request, but I expect you won't care to hear much of it; it's been my sad experience that a refuted/rattled paradigm engenders little appreciation---quite the opposite, in fact.

Warmest regards-

Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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9 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2009 - 7:48AM #26
Hatman
Posts: 9,954

Apr 3, 2009 -- 8:47PM, hamerhas wrote:

  I can certainly think of many stands He took that would get Him accused of being a


fundementalist.


 Such as even looking at another person in lust means you are an adulterer, but I can think


of none that would get him labled a liberal.


Can you name one?


First, one would have to look up the meaning of the word "liberal," and be willing to humble oneself to the truth revealed there, e.g. His legendary generosity(and much more, besides, of course).

Warmest regards-

Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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9 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2009 - 8:21AM #27
LeahOne
Posts: 18,418

 " I wonder how many others would be willing to give up everything they have, including their very lives to make the lives of others better than they were before."


Sue:  every member of every 'first responder' organization, AND every member of the military.  For a start.

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9 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2009 - 8:27AM #28
Beliefnetsue
Posts: 33

Apr 5, 2009 -- 7:44AM, Hatman wrote:

First, Y'shua IS alive today; no "if."

What kind of man would He be?


Same kind He always was; obedient, humble, kindly, helpful, forgiving of all but blatant, arrogant hypocrites, especially ones who lead astray.

Where would He live?


Wherever His Father led Him to be.

What would He do for work?


Anything honest; being quite knowledgable, there is no field in which He would not excel.

What would He have studied in school?


Being One with Our Father, having access to all He has including His intelligence and wisdom(Omniscience, anyone?), obviates the need for study completely.

What would He believe about religion?


That if it doesn't teach you to love faithfully and truly, even the unlovable, it's useless.

About politics?


That justice should apply to all, equally, and that just weights and measures in regard to money are essential to prevent the machinations of Mammon, which only work by issuing lies in the form of a flood of irredeemable paper..

About the state of the world economy?


That the greedy bankers and their corporate allies are at the root of the evil debt-enslavement the vast majority of governments have fallen prey to, with the cascading effects upon their populations due to suppression of energy inventions, health cures, and many other suchlike devious crapola.

About the environment?


That we are here to be stewards of the earth, and to "husband" it with care. Everyone capable of walking or moving about should do their part with diligence and enjoyment.

How would He be an activist?


By standing tall for truth, justice, and fair dealing with all.

What would He choose to fight for?


Love, using loving methods.

Or against?


The powers of Mammon, all deception, all suppression of useful and beneficial devices/health cures because some corporation's false god, "profit," is threatened, deliberate polluters, and bullies of all stripes.

And if you went looking for Him, where would you find Him on a Saturday night?


Depends on His Father's will for Him in that hour, but likely having a chat with a lost soul, whether rich or poor or somewhere in-between, showing him or her the way back Home. Elucidation upon any of the above points available on request, but I expect you won't care to hear much of it; it's been my sad experience that a refuted/rattled paradigm engenders little appreciation---quite the opposite, in fact. Warmest regards- Hatman



Nice Job, Hatman! I like your Jesus, but one personal observation - I think the He would still have the deepest compassion for even the worst and most wretched of us.


Beliefnet Sue

"Just passing time, just passing through"
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9 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2009 - 8:28AM #29
Beliefnetsue
Posts: 33

Apr 5, 2009 -- 8:21AM, LeahOne wrote:


 " I wonder how many others would be willing to give up everything they have, including their very lives to make the lives of others better than they were before."


Sue:  every member of every 'first responder' organization, AND every member of the military.  For a start.




Hi LeahOne,


You're absolutely right about that.  :-)


Beliefnet Sue

"Just passing time, just passing through"
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9 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2009 - 1:33PM #30
Xristocharis
Posts: 5,051

Apr 5, 2009 -- 7:48AM, Hatman wrote:

Apr 3, 2009 -- 8:47PM, hamerhas wrote:


  I can certainly think of many stands He took that would get Him accused of being a


fundementalist.


 Such as even looking at another person in lust means you are an adulterer, but I can think


of none that would get him labled a liberal.


Can you name one?



First, one would have to look up the meaning of the word "liberal," and be willing to humble oneself to the truth revealed there, e.g. His legendary generosity(and much more, besides, of course).  Warmest regards-  Hatman



Terms like "liberal" and "conservative" are subjective terms related to the current status quo of any culture or society.


In usual parlance conservatism is the desire to maintain the present status quo, while liberalism is the desire to change it. More accurately, however, liberalism refers to a philosophical-political ideology that emphasizes individual liberty and equality of persons.


When one goes far left it's known as being "radical", a completely radical overhaul of the present state of things; when one goes far right it's known as being "reactionary" a desire to go back to a status quo ante--the way things used to be. In recent history the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was a radical overhaul of the Russian system; while the Nazis were a reactionist group seeking to harken back to Germany's "greatness" through extreme nationalism (i.e. fascism).


On the left-right spectrum Jesus was patently liberal, and in many ways quite radical.


Jesus would be likely labeled a conservative on some issues today and a liberal on others (though, that'd largely also depend on WHERE He was).


I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, however, that the Religious Right would absolutely hate Jesus if He were walking and talking among us in the United States. Not that He'd make many friends among the Democrats or Democrat-leaning either. Hence why I said I think Republicans and Democrats alike would absolutely despise Him.


Jesus would be a terrible American.


-Jon

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Hélder Câmara
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