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Flag Beliefnetsue April 3, 2009 12:07 PM EDT

What kind of man would He be?  Where would He live?  What would He do for work?  What would He have studied in school?  What would He believe about religion?  About politics?  About the state of the world economy?  About the environment?


How would He be an activist?  What would He choose to fight for?  Or against?


And if you went looking for Him, where would you find Him on a Saturday night?


Have fun with this one.    There are of course no right or wrong answers!

Flag hamerhas April 3, 2009 12:27 PM EDT

  What has given you cause to believe He would be so different?

Flag Jazel April 3, 2009 12:32 PM EDT

In my city, there is quite a large population of homeless people who set up little camps all along the riverbanks of the river running through downtown.  I imagine if I were looking for Jesus, that would be the first place I would go.

Flag hamerhas April 3, 2009 12:47 PM EDT

  I live in a town where people think so well of themselves and the good things they do,


that if Jesus were to come today, I would look for a hill outside town where they had


beaten and executed Him, just like the do gooders did before.

Flag Kwinters April 3, 2009 12:48 PM EDT

He'd be what he was in life - a liberal Jew.


 

Flag LeahOne April 3, 2009 1:01 PM EDT

In which case, early on Saturday night, he'd be making Havdolah.....maybe at a Hillel house on a nearby college campus.  Or maybe at a chavurah (fellowship). 


 

Flag Ebon April 3, 2009 1:09 PM EDT

OK, I'll give it a shot.


Based on Jesus's character as presented in the Bible, I think he'd be either a builder of some kind (as he was last time), a teacher or soem kind of medic. Physically, he'd look much the same as most people around him. If he were a builder, he would be fit and strong. He might wear his hair long or have a beard but since those were cultural norms of that time, he might equally not. He'd be Jewish, of course, and probably quite observant but I don't know enough about Judaism to say whether he'd be Reform or Orthodox. He would still have that wry, subtle sense of humour and love of wordplay, he's still a good storyteller.


If he were a teacher, I suspect he would probably teach young children, possibly in what's called Primary School here. He's probably a good teacher as well, one of those infinitely patient teachers who's great with very young or special needs kids. If he was a doctor or nurse, he'd specialise in paediatrics. He lives in a modest apartment, nothing very fancy. He probably reads a lot but doesn't watch much TV. He might well volunteer for some kind of charitable organisation, perhaps Habitat for Humanity (if he were a builder) or some kind of soup kitchen or emergency care organisation.


Politically, he'd be very liberal on some issues and conservative on others (which probably makes him a moderate in US terms). While socially quite conservative, he's a fierce proponant of church-state seperation ("Render unto Caesar") and for health and child care.


On a Saturday night, you might find him doing charitable work but you might also find him preaching his message. Possibly on the streets but also possibly on some kind of public access TV show or even using his sense of humour and love of words to do stand-up at the local comedy club.

Flag GodtheFather April 3, 2009 1:17 PM EDT

Apr 3, 2009 -- 12:07PM, Beliefnetsue wrote:


What kind of man would He be?  Where would He live?  What would He do for work?  What would He have studied in school?  What would He believe about religion?  About politics?  About the state of the world economy?  About the environment?


How would He be an activist?  What would He choose to fight for?  Or against?


And if you went looking for Him, where would you find Him on a Saturday night?


Have fun with this one.    There are of course no right or wrong answers!




Actually there are but I'll withold them for now.

Flag Beliefnetsue April 3, 2009 8:38 PM EDT

Apr 3, 2009 -- 1:09PM, Ebon wrote:


OK, I'll give it a shot.


Based on Jesus's character as presented in the Bible, I think he'd be either a builder of some kind (as he was last time), a teacher or soem kind of medic. Physically, he'd look much the same as most people around him. If he were a builder, he would be fit and strong. He might wear his hair long or have a beard but since those were cultural norms of that time, he might equally not. He'd be Jewish, of course, and probably quite observant but I don't know enough about Judaism to say whether he'd be Reform or Orthodox. He would still have that wry, subtle sense of humour and love of wordplay, he's still a good storyteller.


If he were a teacher, I suspect he would probably teach young children, possibly in what's called Primary School here. He's probably a good teacher as well, one of those infinitely patient teachers who's great with very young or special needs kids. If he was a doctor or nurse, he'd specialise in paediatrics. He lives in a modest apartment, nothing very fancy. He probably reads a lot but doesn't watch much TV. He might well volunteer for some kind of charitable organisation, perhaps Habitat for Humanity (if he were a builder) or some kind of soup kitchen or emergency care organisation.


Politically, he'd be very liberal on some issues and conservative on others (which probably makes him a moderate in US terms). While socially quite conservative, he's a fierce proponant of church-state seperation ("Render unto Caesar") and for health and child care.


On a Saturday night, you might find him doing charitable work but you might also find him preaching his message. Possibly on the streets but also possibly on some kind of public access TV show or even using his sense of humour and love of words to do stand-up at the local comedy club.




Nice Job Ebon!


I really like your Jesus.  :-)


Some of the others were pretty good ideas also.


Peace and Love,


Beliefnet Sue

Flag hamerhas April 3, 2009 8:47 PM EDT

  I can certainly think of many stands He took that would get Him accused of being a


fundementalist.


 Such as even looking at another person in lust means you are an adulterer, but I can think


of none that would get him labled a liberal.


Can you name one?

Flag Xristocharis April 4, 2009 12:07 AM EDT

For what it's worth, there are those of us who believe He is alive today.

"What kind of man would He be?"

I'd put money that He'd be the same kind of man He was when he walked the dusty roads of Galilee.

"Where would He live?"

Probably close to friends and family, in Luke's Gospel Jesus lived in the town of Capernaum, the home town of Peter, Andrew, James, and John.

"What would He do for work?"

One might imagine carpentry. I'm inclined to believe if He were walking around His chosen vocation would probably be to minister to those in need and live intentionally to include the outcasts and those frowned upon by society. Probably spending a lot of time in the run down parts of town. I can see Jesus offering His time to be a handyman at run down appartments or people's houses, fixing things and not charging them for it, though possibly inviting Himself to have dinner or possibly treating them to dinner or coffee somewhere just to sit and talk and really get to know them.

Whatever it is, it'd involve people and the gift of presence would no doubt leave a distinct impression on anyone who interacted with Him.

"What would He believe about religion?"

The ways we think about religion today is arguably pretty different than how people thought about religion back in Jesus' day. He'd probably be less concerned with "religion" as this categorical "thing", and spend more time encouraging people to spend time together, love one another and consider the role of God in their life more seriously without being overbearing about it.

"About politics?"

I think He'd be very political, but not necessarily all that interested in politics. I see Jesus as a more hands-on kind of person.

"About the state of the world economy?"

He had a few sharp words against those who were rich, comfortable and satisfied. I don't see any reason why that would be any different.

"About the environment?"

Pro-evironment. I'm sure.

"How would He be an activist?"

I believe Jesus would be very hands-on.

"What would He choose to fight for?  Or against?"

I'm sure it would be the sort of things that would piss off conservatives, liberals and moderates. Republicans and Democrats would hate Him equally I think.

"And if you went looking for Him, where would you find Him on a Saturday night?"

My guess would be either at a party with friends or at a soup kitchen. And quite possibly, for Jesus, those two things would be the same thing.

-Jon

Flag Jazel April 4, 2009 5:57 AM EDT

Apr 3, 2009 -- 8:47PM, hamerhas wrote:


  I can certainly think of many stands He took that would get Him accused of being a


fundementalist.


 Such as even looking at another person in lust means you are an adulterer, but I can think


of none that would get him labled a liberal.


Can you name one?




Boy, I don't know, but if he went around feeding 5,000 people all the loaves and fishes they could eat like he did before, that certainly smacks of some sort of evil liberal food stamp program:)


Seriously, though, He would be apolitical.  The conservatives would hate him.  The liberals would hate him.  He wouldn't fit into any of our boxes.  It's foolish to try and assume he would like me any better than Rush Limbaugh just because I'm a self proclaimed "liberal".


-Jim

Flag Beliefnetsue April 4, 2009 7:54 AM EDT

Apr 4, 2009 -- 12:07AM, Xristocharis wrote:


For what it's worth, there are those of us who believe He is alive today.

"What kind of man would He be?"

I'd put money that He'd be the same kind of man He was when he walked the dusty roads of Galilee.

"Where would He live?"

Probably close to friends and family, in Luke's Gospel Jesus lived in the town of Capernaum, the home town of Peter, Andrew, James, and John.

"What would He do for work?"

One might imagine carpentry. I'm inclined to believe if He were walking around His chosen vocation would probably be to minister to those in need and live intentionally to include the outcasts and those frowned upon by society. Probably spending a lot of time in the run down parts of town. I can see Jesus offering His time to be a handyman at run down appartments or people's houses, fixing things and not charging them for it, though possibly inviting Himself to have dinner or possibly treating them to dinner or coffee somewhere just to sit and talk and really get to know them.

Whatever it is, it'd involve people and the gift of presence would no doubt leave a distinct impression on anyone who interacted with Him.

"What would He believe about religion?"

The ways we think about religion today is arguably pretty different than how people thought about religion back in Jesus' day. He'd probably be less concerned with "religion" as this categorical "thing", and spend more time encouraging people to spend time together, love one another and consider the role of God in their life more seriously without being overbearing about it.

"About politics?"

I think He'd be very political, but not necessarily all that interested in politics. I see Jesus as a more hands-on kind of person.

"About the state of the world economy?"

He had a few sharp words against those who were rich, comfortable and satisfied. I don't see any reason why that would be any different.

"About the environment?"

Pro-evironment. I'm sure.

"How would He be an activist?"

I believe Jesus would be very hands-on.

"What would He choose to fight for?  Or against?"

I'm sure it would be the sort of things that would piss off conservatives, liberals and moderates. Republicans and Democrats would hate Him equally I think.

"And if you went looking for Him, where would you find Him on a Saturday night?"

My guess would be either at a party with friends or at a soup kitchen. And quite possibly, for Jesus, those two things would be the same thing.

-Jon




Hi Jon,


As always, another excellent post.  :-)  And I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.


One thing puzzles me though.  You said:


For what it's worth, there are those of us who believe He is alive today.   Of course, you mean in spirit form, or do you mean an actual person?


Thanks for your input!


Beliefnet Sue


 


 

Flag Beliefnetsue April 4, 2009 7:58 AM EDT

Apr 4, 2009 -- 5:57AM, Jazel wrote:


Apr 3, 2009 -- 8:47PM, hamerhas wrote:


  I can certainly think of many stands He took that would get Him accused of being a


fundementalist.


 Such as even looking at another person in lust means you are an adulterer, but I can think


of none that would get him labled a liberal.


Can you name one?




Boy, I don't know, but if he went around feeding 5,000 people all the loaves and fishes they could eat like he did before, that certainly smacks of some sort of evil liberal food stamp program:)


Seriously, though, He would be apolitical.  The conservatives would hate him.  The liberals would hate him.  He wouldn't fit into any of our boxes.  It's foolish to try and assume he would like me any better than Rush Limbaugh just because I'm a self proclaimed "liberal".


-Jim




Boy, I don't know, but if he went around feeding 5,000 people all the loaves and fishes they could eat like he did before, that certainly smacks of some sort of evil liberal food stamp program:)


Yep, Jim - I agree with that one also.  :-)


Beliefnet Sue

Flag Xristocharis April 4, 2009 8:26 AM EDT


Hi Jon,


As always, another excellent post.  :-)  And I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.


One thing puzzles me though.  You said:


For what it's worth, there are those of us who believe He is alive today.   Of course, you mean in spirit form, or do you mean an actual person?


Thanks for your input!


Beliefnet Sue




 


Not at all. I believe the same man, born of Mary, who walked along the shores of the Galilee, ate with sinners, walked on water, was crucified and who rose three days later is very much alive. He's as much flesh and bone as you or I, perhaps even more so.


I'm what you might call a "Christian Materialist", I think the term is somewhat redundant, but perhaps necessary in our time. The historic, creedal, and orthodox position of the Christian faith is that Jesus the man rose from the dead. He stopped being dead, and more than this He made death bankrupt by robbing it of its power. I also believe that everyone else will, at the consummation of all things, likewise rise from the dead. St. Paul tells us (1 Cor. 15) that the body that rises is of a sort we simply can't conceive (he compares the differences between the present body and the future body with the words psuchekos and pneumatikos respectively, i.e. the present body is governed by psuche or "soul" whereas the future body is governed by pneuma or "[the] s/Spirit"). Compare with his statement in Romans 8 where he says the same Spirit "of Him who raised Christ from the dead dwells in you than He too shall give life to your mortal bodies".


Bishop N.T. Wright quite rightly says that historically Christianity has been (eschatologically speaking) far less interested in "life after death" and far more interested (again, eschatologically) in "life after life after death". If one were to scour the contents of the New Testament the closest we get to anything talking about "going to heaven when we die" are some rather vague passages. However the New Testament is practically filled to overflowing on the issue of resurrection. This trend is found continued through the Fathers and is part of foundational creedal language from antiquity.


In fact it was perhaps this single issue that brought the most and harshest criticisms from Hellenic society, Christians believed that the body would rise, and this was for people steeped in the idea of a Platonic soul that was of greater importance than the body (and, in fact, that the body was a somewhat "filthy" thing to be discarded upon death) an absurd, laughable and perhaps even profane idea.


While Christianity over the course of time did in many ways attempt to form a synthesis between the ideas of the Immortal Soul and the Resurrection of the Body, I think it's led to more problems than anything else. I don't believe in an immortal soul at all. The being that is me is a being of flesh and blood and bone. Certainly I am more than just flesh, but I am identified with what is visible and seen.


When God scooped up clay and breathed life into it, He was making the very image and likeness of Himself, and He proclaimed things like dirt, trees, water, stars, beasts, birds and fish "exceedingly good", including man.


I don't take Genesis literally, but I do take it seriously. This body of flesh is part of the good creation of God, and I believe God took up a body of flesh just like my own, and in doing so united not only divinity and humanity together, but united the Uncreated and the Created. And, even though I believe God "fills" all things, because He's God, the Incarnation adds something else to how we ought to understand the Creator-Created relationship. Forever God has really and truly united Himself with the realm of dirt and clay, Christ becomes the Sacrament par excellence; the Sacrament of sacraments.


-Jon

Flag Beliefnetsue April 4, 2009 8:35 AM EDT

Apr 4, 2009 -- 8:26AM, Xristocharis wrote:



Hi Jon,


As always, another excellent post.  :-)  And I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.


One thing puzzles me though.  You said:


For what it's worth, there are those of us who believe He is alive today.   Of course, you mean in spirit form, or do you mean an actual person?


Thanks for your input!


Beliefnet Sue




 


Not at all. I believe the same man, born of Mary, who walked along the shores of the Galilee, ate with sinners, walked on water, was crucified and who rose three days later is very much alive. He's as much flesh and bone as you or I, perhaps even more so.


I'm what you might call a "Christian Materialist", I think the term is somewhat redundant, but perhaps necessary in our time. The historic, creedal, and orthodox position of the Christian faith is that Jesus the man rose from the dead. He stopped being dead, and more than this He made death bankrupt by robbing it of its power. I also believe that everyone else will, at the consummation of all things, likewise rise from the dead. St. Paul tells us (1 Cor. 15) that the body that rises is of a sort we simply can't conceive (he compares the differences between the present body and the future body with the words psuchekos and pneumatikos respectively, i.e. the present body is governed by psuche or "soul" whereas the future body is governed by pneuma or "[the] s/Spirit"). Compare with his statement in Romans 8 where he says the same Spirit "of Him who raised Christ from the dead dwells in you than He too shall give life to your mortal bodies".


Bishop N.T. Wright quite rightly says that historically Christianity has been (eschatologically speaking) far less interested in "life after death" and far more interested (again, eschatologically) in "life after life after death". If one were to scour the contents of the New Testament the closest we get to anything talking about "going to heaven when we die" are some rather vague passages. However the New Testament is practically filled to overflowing on the issue of resurrection. This trend is found continued through the Fathers and is part of foundational creedal language from antiquity.


In fact it was perhaps this single issue that brought the most and harshest criticisms from Hellenic society, Christians believed that the body would rise, and this was for people steeped in the idea of a Platonic soul that was of greater importance than the body (and, in fact, that the body was a somewhat "filthy" thing to be discarded upon death) an absurd, laughable and perhaps even profane idea.


While Christianity over the course of time did in many ways attempt to form a synthesis between the ideas of the Immortal Soul and the Resurrection of the Body, I think it's led to more problems than anything else. I don't believe in an immortal soul at all. The being that is me is a being of flesh and blood and bone. Certainly I am more than just flesh, but I am identified with what is visible and seen.


When God scooped up clay and breathed life into it, He was making the very image and likeness of Himself, and He proclaimed things like dirt, trees, water, stars, beasts, birds and fish "exceedingly good", including man.


I don't take Genesis literally, but I do take it seriously. This body of flesh is part of the good creation of God, and I believe God took up a body of flesh just like my own, and in doing so united not only divinity and humanity together, but united the Uncreated and the Created. And, even though I believe God "fills" all things, because He's God, the Incarnation adds something else to how we ought to understand the Creator-Created relationship. Forever God has really and truly united Himself with the realm of dirt and clay, Christ becomes the Sacrament par excellence; the Sacrament of sacraments.


-Jon




Hi Jon, thanks for your answer.  Okay then, if Jesus is alive today, was alive ever since the resurrection, then why has He not made himself known to us, especially in times of great trouble, like WWII or the ongoing unrest in the Middle East (His homeland) or now as we fall further and further into extremely disastrous economic times?


Just curious?


Beliefnet Sue

Flag hamerhas April 4, 2009 12:43 PM EDT

Apr 4, 2009 -- 5:57AM, Jazel wrote:


Apr 3, 2009 -- 8:47PM, hamerhas wrote:


  I can certainly think of many stands He took that would get Him accused of being a


fundementalist.


 Such as even looking at another person in lust means you are an adulterer, but I can think


of none that would get him labled a liberal.


Can you name one?




Boy, I don't know, but if he went around feeding 5,000 people all the loaves and fishes they could eat like he did before, that certainly smacks of some sort of evil liberal food stamp program:)


Seriously, though, He would be apolitical.  The conservatives would hate him.  The liberals would hate him.  He wouldn't fit into any of our boxes.  It's foolish to try and assume he would like me any better than Rush Limbaugh just because I'm a self proclaimed "liberal".


-Jim




 


There is a soup kithchen in my city that serves one free hearty meal a day, everyday, that is


funded by a group of what are commonly called fundamentalist churchs.


No "politcal" connections whatsoever, by the way.


 


The only requirement is that they hear the gospel that Jesus is life and if you do not  have


Him you will die in your sins, before eating.


Quite a fire and brimstone fundie message.


Of course when Jesus sponsored His liberal minded lunch He would have never made the


 people hear such  a narrow minded bigoted message:


 


           "Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for the meat which endureth unto everlasting life,which the Son of man shall give unto you, for Him hath God the Father sealed........I say unto you ,Moses gave you not that bread from heaven,but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven,and giveth life unto the world."


                                       (John 6:27-33)

Flag Beliefnetsue April 4, 2009 1:00 PM EDT

Apr 4, 2009 -- 12:43PM, hamerhas wrote:


Apr 4, 2009 -- 5:57AM, Jazel wrote:


Apr 3, 2009 -- 8:47PM, hamerhas wrote:


  I can certainly think of many stands He took that would get Him accused of being a


fundementalist.


 Such as even looking at another person in lust means you are an adulterer, but I can think


of none that would get him labled a liberal.


Can you name one?




Boy, I don't know, but if he went around feeding 5,000 people all the loaves and fishes they could eat like he did before, that certainly smacks of some sort of evil liberal food stamp program:)


Seriously, though, He would be apolitical.  The conservatives would hate him.  The liberals would hate him.  He wouldn't fit into any of our boxes.  It's foolish to try and assume he would like me any better than Rush Limbaugh just because I'm a self proclaimed "liberal".


-Jim




 


There is a soup kithchen in my city that serves one free hearty meal a day, everyday, that is


funded by a group of what are commonly called fundamentalist churchs.


No "politcal" connections whatsoever, by the way.


 


The only requirement is that they hear the gospel that Jesus is life and if you do not  have


Him you will die in your sins, before eating.


Quite a fire and brimstone fundie message.


Of course when Jesus sponsored His liberal minded lunch He would have never made the


 people hear such  a narrow minded bigoted message:


 


           "Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for the meat which endureth unto everlasting life,which the Son of man shall give unto you, for Him hath God the Father sealed........I say unto you ,Moses gave you not that bread from heaven,but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven,and giveth life unto the world."


                                       (John 6:27-33)




I've been to some like that myself, and they leave me feeling extremely uncomfortable.


I do know of one where Christians and Jews and others all work together, where they serve a home-made meal to their guests, who are seated rather than having to go through a line, and where the volunteers themselves sit down and have lunch and talk with their guests as well as serving them.


It's more like having the extended family over for Thanksgiving.  Except that all are welcome to come through the door.  To my thinking, this is more like what the Christian message is supposed to be all about.


It is like the parable of the banquet, where the wealthy man who had invited all of his prominent friends who chose not to be there, then sent his servant out into the streets to invite all the poor. 


And that is exactly what the Kingdom of Heaven will be like.  A come as you are affair.


 Beliefnet Sue

Flag hamerhas April 4, 2009 4:23 PM EDT

 That is how this one works as well.


With the children of the adult fundies assisting in bringing the plates to the tables and


 refillling glasses,etc,etc,.

Flag Leopardlady April 4, 2009 4:34 PM EDT

If Jesus were here today, a lot of Christians would not like him.

Flag j_Rob April 4, 2009 4:37 PM EDT

If Jesus Christ were alive today, He would be pissed.  He would say something to this effect (though he would be far more eloquent):


"Dude, what have you done with my teachings?  I give you 'blessed are the meek' and 'love each other as I have loved you' and 'be perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect', and you take it and you screw it up like this?  Is THIS why I got nailed to a peice of wood?  So you could create schisms over instruments in church and how my Supper is celebrated?  So you can bomb abortion clinics?  So you can hate people in my Name?  Seriously?  Get out of here!"


As I said, something like that.


j_Rob

Flag Iwantamotto April 4, 2009 4:49 PM EDT

I think He'd be an architect or something for His day job and Youtube His messages (and promote increased online participation even for developing areas). :D

Flag Xristocharis April 4, 2009 4:53 PM EDT


Hi Jon, thanks for your answer.  Okay then, if Jesus is alive today, was alive ever since the resurrection, then why has He not made himself known to us, especially in times of great trouble, like WWII or the ongoing unrest in the Middle East (His homeland) or now as we fall further and further into extremely disastrous economic times?


Just curious?


Beliefnet Sue




 


I believe Jesus does make Himself known, He's present in and through His Church, in and through the Sacraments, in and through our love for one another, in and through the reading and hearing of Scripture, in and through the poor, the sick, the hurting, the persecuted, the suffering, and the oppressed. I also believe that the Parousia will take place at the consummation of history, Jesus' Second Advent, in glory.


None of that, of course, may offer a substantially helpful answer for the very big question, "Why do bad things happen?"


But as a Christian who believes the Incarnation means some very big and important things, then I cannot help but look at the world around me and not see the presence of God; but not the presence of God in a warm, fluffy, happy way. It's the presence of the Cross, that wretched and anguish-laden instrument of suffering. Jesus is inseparably identified with the lowly and the weak, the sick and the unwell, the poor, the orphan, the rejected, the unwanted, the ones counted as worthless by the world. These are the most important people in the kingdom of God. The Cross means that God is not identified with power, but with suffering. The Cross means that God is not identified with the victorious sword-bearers of history, but with those whose lives have been made worse by the wretchedness of the sword and the bullet.


This is what gives me my ethos, this is foundational to the entire way i view morality and view how to act in relation to other people.


Why do bad things happen? That question exists whether or not Jesus rose from the dead, that question exists whether or not there is a God. I don't know why, I don't have answers to the most haunting of our philosophical questions, but I can follow the Way of Jesus, I can learn to imitate Him, I can seek to become a fellow crossbearer with Him, learn to identify myself with the weak and the lowly and the hated, and allow myself to be transformed in my very humanity into a person who loves and is merciful and kind. Then, I pray, Christ makes Himself present through me as well.


In other words, I can choose to act and go as far as my feet will take me to see other people suffer less. Even if I have to forsake my own life for that goal.


-Jon

Flag Beliefnetsue April 4, 2009 7:11 PM EDT

Apr 4, 2009 -- 4:53PM, Xristocharis wrote:



Hi Jon, thanks for your answer.  Okay then, if Jesus is alive today, was alive ever since the resurrection, then why has He not made himself known to us, especially in times of great trouble, like WWII or the ongoing unrest in the Middle East (His homeland) or now as we fall further and further into extremely disastrous economic times?


Just curious?


Beliefnet Sue




 


I believe Jesus does make Himself known, He's present in and through His Church, in and through the Sacraments, in and through our love for one another, in and through the reading and hearing of Scripture, in and through the poor, the sick, the hurting, the persecuted, the suffering, and the oppressed. I also believe that the Parousia will take place at the consummation of history, Jesus' Second Advent, in glory.


None of that, of course, may offer a substantially helpful answer for the very big question, "Why do bad things happen?"


But as a Christian who believes the Incarnation means some very big and important things, then I cannot help but look at the world around me and not see the presence of God; but not the presence of God in a warm, fluffy, happy way. It's the presence of the Cross, that wretched and anguish-laden instrument of suffering. Jesus is inseparably identified with the lowly and the weak, the sick and the unwell, the poor, the orphan, the rejected, the unwanted, the ones counted as worthless by the world. These are the most important people in the kingdom of God. The Cross means that God is not identified with power, but with suffering. The Cross means that God is not identified with the victorious sword-bearers of history, but with those whose lives have been made worse by the wretchedness of the sword and the bullet.


This is what gives me my ethos, this is foundational to the entire way i view morality and view how to act in relation to other people.


Why do bad things happen? That question exists whether or not Jesus rose from the dead, that question exists whether or not there is a God. I don't know why, I don't have answers to the most haunting of our philosophical questions, but I can follow the Way of Jesus, I can learn to imitate Him, I can seek to become a fellow crossbearer with Him, learn to identify myself with the weak and the lowly and the hated, and allow myself to be transformed in my very humanity into a person who loves and is merciful and kind. Then, I pray, Christ makes Himself present through me as well.


In other words, I can choose to act and go as far as my feet will take me to see other people suffer less. Even if I have to forsake my own life for that goal.


-Jon




Hi Jon,


So you're saying that Jesus is with us in spirit, and in the spirits of the meek and the wretched and the good and the kind.


Some bad things happen because of natural forces - hurricanes. tornados, tsumanis, etcetera.  Some bad things happen because of man's tampering with the environment - droughts, floods, fires, etcetera.  And some bad things happen because of the self-serving choices that people make.  The choices to rape, kill, and take advantage of others in so many other ways.


I agree that as Christians - what Jesus did for us motivates us to live differently - and better than we would ever have without His sacrifice.  I wonder how many others would be willing to give up everything they have, including their very lives to make the lives of others better than they were before.


Thanks for elaborating.


Have a Blessed Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday.


Beliefnet Sue


 

Flag Hatman April 5, 2009 7:44 AM EDT
First, Y'shua IS alive today; no "if."

What kind of man would He be?


Same kind He always was; obedient, humble, kindly, helpful, forgiving of all but blatant, arrogant hypocrites, especially ones who lead astray.

Where would He live?


Wherever His Father led Him to be.

What would He do for work?


Anything honest; being quite knowledgable, there is no field in which He would not excel.

What would He have studied in school?


Being One with Our Father, having access to all He has including His intelligence and wisdom(Omniscience, anyone?), obviates the need for study completely.

What would He believe about religion?


That if it doesn't teach you to love faithfully and truly, even the unlovable, it's useless.

About politics?


That justice should apply to all, equally, and that just weights and measures in regard to money are essential to prevent the machinations of Mammon, which only work by issuing lies in the form of a flood of irredeemable paper..

About the state of the world economy?


That the greedy bankers and their corporate allies are at the root of the evil debt-enslavement the vast majority of governments have fallen prey to, with the cascading effects upon their populations due to suppression of energy inventions, health cures, and many other suchlike devious crapola.

About the environment?


That we are here to be stewards of the earth, and to "husband" it with care.  Everyone capable of walking or moving about should do their part with diligence and enjoyment.

How would He be an activist?


By standing tall for truth, justice, and fair dealing with all.

What would He choose to fight for?


Love, using loving methods.

Or against?


The powers of Mammon, all deception, all suppression of useful and beneficial devices/health cures because some corporation's false god, "profit," is threatened, deliberate polluters, and bullies of all stripes.

And if you went looking for Him, where would you find Him on a Saturday night?


Depends on His Father's will for Him in that hour, but likely having a chat with a lost soul, whether rich or poor or somewhere in-between, showing him or her the way back Home.

Elucidation upon any of the above points available on request, but I expect you won't care to hear much of it; it's been my sad experience that a refuted/rattled paradigm engenders little appreciation---quite the opposite, in fact.

Warmest regards-

Hatman

Flag Hatman April 5, 2009 7:48 AM EDT

Apr 3, 2009 -- 8:47PM, hamerhas wrote:

  I can certainly think of many stands He took that would get Him accused of being a


fundementalist.


 Such as even looking at another person in lust means you are an adulterer, but I can think


of none that would get him labled a liberal.


Can you name one?


First, one would have to look up the meaning of the word "liberal," and be willing to humble oneself to the truth revealed there, e.g. His legendary generosity(and much more, besides, of course).

Warmest regards-

Hatman

Flag LeahOne April 5, 2009 8:21 AM EDT

 " I wonder how many others would be willing to give up everything they have, including their very lives to make the lives of others better than they were before."


Sue:  every member of every 'first responder' organization, AND every member of the military.  For a start.

Flag Beliefnetsue April 5, 2009 8:27 AM EDT

Apr 5, 2009 -- 7:44AM, Hatman wrote:

First, Y'shua IS alive today; no "if."

What kind of man would He be?


Same kind He always was; obedient, humble, kindly, helpful, forgiving of all but blatant, arrogant hypocrites, especially ones who lead astray.

Where would He live?


Wherever His Father led Him to be.

What would He do for work?


Anything honest; being quite knowledgable, there is no field in which He would not excel.

What would He have studied in school?


Being One with Our Father, having access to all He has including His intelligence and wisdom(Omniscience, anyone?), obviates the need for study completely.

What would He believe about religion?


That if it doesn't teach you to love faithfully and truly, even the unlovable, it's useless.

About politics?


That justice should apply to all, equally, and that just weights and measures in regard to money are essential to prevent the machinations of Mammon, which only work by issuing lies in the form of a flood of irredeemable paper..

About the state of the world economy?


That the greedy bankers and their corporate allies are at the root of the evil debt-enslavement the vast majority of governments have fallen prey to, with the cascading effects upon their populations due to suppression of energy inventions, health cures, and many other suchlike devious crapola.

About the environment?


That we are here to be stewards of the earth, and to "husband" it with care. Everyone capable of walking or moving about should do their part with diligence and enjoyment.

How would He be an activist?


By standing tall for truth, justice, and fair dealing with all.

What would He choose to fight for?


Love, using loving methods.

Or against?


The powers of Mammon, all deception, all suppression of useful and beneficial devices/health cures because some corporation's false god, "profit," is threatened, deliberate polluters, and bullies of all stripes.

And if you went looking for Him, where would you find Him on a Saturday night?


Depends on His Father's will for Him in that hour, but likely having a chat with a lost soul, whether rich or poor or somewhere in-between, showing him or her the way back Home. Elucidation upon any of the above points available on request, but I expect you won't care to hear much of it; it's been my sad experience that a refuted/rattled paradigm engenders little appreciation---quite the opposite, in fact. Warmest regards- Hatman



Nice Job, Hatman! I like your Jesus, but one personal observation - I think the He would still have the deepest compassion for even the worst and most wretched of us.


Beliefnet Sue

Flag Beliefnetsue April 5, 2009 8:28 AM EDT

Apr 5, 2009 -- 8:21AM, LeahOne wrote:


 " I wonder how many others would be willing to give up everything they have, including their very lives to make the lives of others better than they were before."


Sue:  every member of every 'first responder' organization, AND every member of the military.  For a start.




Hi LeahOne,


You're absolutely right about that.  :-)


Beliefnet Sue

Flag Xristocharis April 5, 2009 1:33 PM EDT

Apr 5, 2009 -- 7:48AM, Hatman wrote:

Apr 3, 2009 -- 8:47PM, hamerhas wrote:


  I can certainly think of many stands He took that would get Him accused of being a


fundementalist.


 Such as even looking at another person in lust means you are an adulterer, but I can think


of none that would get him labled a liberal.


Can you name one?



First, one would have to look up the meaning of the word "liberal," and be willing to humble oneself to the truth revealed there, e.g. His legendary generosity(and much more, besides, of course).  Warmest regards-  Hatman



Terms like "liberal" and "conservative" are subjective terms related to the current status quo of any culture or society.


In usual parlance conservatism is the desire to maintain the present status quo, while liberalism is the desire to change it. More accurately, however, liberalism refers to a philosophical-political ideology that emphasizes individual liberty and equality of persons.


When one goes far left it's known as being "radical", a completely radical overhaul of the present state of things; when one goes far right it's known as being "reactionary" a desire to go back to a status quo ante--the way things used to be. In recent history the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was a radical overhaul of the Russian system; while the Nazis were a reactionist group seeking to harken back to Germany's "greatness" through extreme nationalism (i.e. fascism).


On the left-right spectrum Jesus was patently liberal, and in many ways quite radical.


Jesus would be likely labeled a conservative on some issues today and a liberal on others (though, that'd largely also depend on WHERE He was).


I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, however, that the Religious Right would absolutely hate Jesus if He were walking and talking among us in the United States. Not that He'd make many friends among the Democrats or Democrat-leaning either. Hence why I said I think Republicans and Democrats alike would absolutely despise Him.


Jesus would be a terrible American.


-Jon

Flag Hatman April 5, 2009 3:52 PM EDT
[/quote]
Thanks, Jon, a quite cogent and rational explanation, complete with examples.
And of course you're correct that Christ would be a terrible American, just as He would be a terrible German, Rhodesian, or Chinese, as His business is concerned with calling out people from being under those governments, to be under His, and His Father's Kingdom---and ours, too, of course.

I like how the GoT puts it:  "The Kingdom is spread out over all the earth, but men do not see it."

Based on much reading I've done, however, I'd venture to say that "most" men don't see it, but quite a few have, by now.

I also think that Christ would be a patriot, too, but in this vein:

"The first duty of a patriot is to protect His country from the government." (~Samuel Clemens, aka Mark Twain.)

*grin*

Warmest regards-

Hatman
Flag warlordofks April 6, 2009 9:48 AM EDT

If Jesus were alive today he would say to the majority of Christians " Get thee behind me, Satan. You've taken my message of Love & turned it into a message of hate."

Flag Iwantamotto April 6, 2009 11:23 AM EDT

Apr 6, 2009 -- 9:48AM, warlordofks wrote:


If Jesus were alive today he would say to the majority of Christians " Get thee behind me, Satan. You've taken my message of Love & turned it into a message of hate."



Actually, I would kind of hope He'd move past angry rants, as they sure didn't do Him much good the first time.  I would hope that Jesus would assess them not as evil and hateful but as people blind to truth.  I would hope He would focus more on education and role-modeling.  To just retort "you suck" to the hateful people is to do exactly what they do.

Flag natureboy_the0 April 6, 2009 2:57 PM EDT

The following questions are asked but I do not believe Jesus is coming back to earth, therefore I will say what I would expect from the person who is supposed to manifest as the second advent of the anointed one. 


What kind of man would He be?   A) Isaiah 52:13-15 suggests he will be become a person exalted and made very high, his appearance will be changed more than any man’s and form of living more than the sons of any man.


Where would He live?  I believe he will sleep wherever he chose or was invited to, but he would have no one place to call home.


What would He do for work?  I feel he would only work for the kingdom of heaven and not support the world.


What would He have studied in school?  Since he is to be the prophet like unto Moses, he would study whatever was required of him until he chose to study nature to choose it over civilization (Isaiah 7:14-16)


What would He believe about religion?  He would know Yeshua said the 3 major religions will become completely blown out of proportion of their originators, so he would recognize the scriptures fulfilling themselves.


About politics?  He would recognize the politics in the USA as being in the state where he is supposed to shoulder it (Isaiah 9:6) to bring in world peace (Isaiah 2:2-4) the 666 system will pattern itself after.


About the state of the world economy?  Exactly as it has been prophesied to happen.


About the environment?  Since everything happens time and time again exactly the same way (Ecc. 1:9),  he would recognize it is definitely time for the transition from this material system to the spiritual system (Rev. 21).


How would He be an activist?  Only for the kingdom of heaven on earth.


What would He choose to fight for?  He would chose to fight for his manifestation to end this civilization.  


Or against?  By fighting bring about his manifestation he would have to fight the corruption of the government overturning the money changers, who they are.


And if you went looking for Him, where would you find Him on a Saturday night?  That would depend if he was sleeping on the streets or in someone’s house, and what would be available in the house or on the streets.



 

Flag jlb32168 April 6, 2009 6:04 PM EDT

. . . He would be entering Jerusalem in six days.

Flag afi1952 April 12, 2009 9:28 AM EDT

Very good, Ebon... a very nice representation of the modern Jesus... a very nice piece to meditate upon before heading out my door for the day... thanx... MikeyB

Flag Truthbarer April 12, 2009 12:35 PM EDT

First of all let me clarify that Jesus is alive today. He may not be here amongst us in the flesh but He promised the Holy Spirit to be with us today. What would he be doing? What he is doing in the heart of believers today, that is, the will of the Father.  Look at what Jesus did while he was here on earth: healing the sick, raising the dead (today the spiritual dead), having compassion on and helping the poor and needy, washing our feet(today serving us  according to our need), and the list goes on; you have the idea, embellish upon it in your own minds. We need to let the Spirit of God have first place in our lives and we will see Change in the world today.

Flag swinter5 April 13, 2009 8:32 PM EDT

I see Jesus today as a Jewish rabbi, though conservative in his views.  He would be ultra-patriotic, loving, next to God, His country and ALL the people in it.  He would serve a congregation, but I also see him, perhaps, teaching on PBS, enlightening the curious, maybe mainstream, people who would surely like to see the Son of God, and ask Him many questions.  Whether H would reveal Himself as such, would be questionable, though he DID identify Himself to the Twelve in that way.


Would we elect Him to public office?  I think the general public would think he was too evangelistic and conservative to be a Congressman or a Senator.  I don't believe He would make a "spectacle" of Himself; just allow people to "read" into Him what they will.


It would be soooo neat to meet Him, here, right now, and sit at His feet and just listen to his parables and stories.

Flag Xristocharis April 13, 2009 9:33 PM EDT

Apr 13, 2009 -- 8:32PM, swinter5 wrote:


I see Jesus today as a Jewish rabbi, though conservative in his views.  He would be ultra-patriotic, loving, next to God, His country and ALL the people in it.  He would serve a congregation, but I also see him, perhaps, teaching on PBS, enlightening the curious, maybe mainstream, people who would surely like to see the Son of God, and ask Him many questions.  Whether H would reveal Himself as such, would be questionable, though he DID identify Himself to the Twelve in that way.


Would we elect Him to public office?  I think the general public would think he was too evangelistic and conservative to be a Congressman or a Senator.  I don't believe He would make a "spectacle" of Himself; just allow people to "read" into Him what they will.


It would be soooo neat to meet Him, here, right now, and sit at His feet and just listen to his parables and stories.




I have four friends I'd like to introduce you to, their names are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.


-Jon

Flag Ebon April 14, 2009 2:30 AM EDT

Mikey: You're very welcome. Glad you enjoyed it.


Apr 6, 2009 -- 9:48AM, warlordofks wrote:


If Jesus were alive today he would say to the majority of Christians " Get thee behind me, Satan. You've taken my message of Love & turned it into a message of hate."



I think there is a tendancy among Christians, especially those of the militant kind, to view Jesus as pretty much an extension of themselves and therefore, as someone who shares their views on all things. For example, Jesus's opinions on homosexuality are unrecorded so we have no idea if he followed the conventional view of his time or if he was entirely accepting and yet, virtually every modern Christian would be absolutely certain that Jesus condemned homosexuality, not because he did so but because that's the view they hold and therefore, Jesus must have held the same view. One could say the same about the idea that a man who was tortured to death for a crime he didn't commit would endorse the death penalty (at least, without massive safeguards in place). I disagree with the RCC on most things but at least they're consistent on that one. Or the view that Jesus would have been opposed to communism. I think communism is unworkable but Jesus never said word one on the subject and what little he said about economics seems to be proto-socialist.


I suspect it's much the same as the mental process which allows teh more militant fundementalists to insist on a totally literal interpretation until it gets to something they like doing, whereupon it becomes convieniently symbolic. For example, the same people who insist on Biblical literalism will usually insist that Jesus's teaching that one should not pray in public is open to interpretation. It is a human tendancy to think of oneself as right in most things but it reaches it's zenith with the militant fundementalist. Regardless of religion (or lack thereof), the militant fundementalist's creed, far, far above any lip service to their deity, is that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Flag Xristocharis April 14, 2009 5:24 AM EDT

Apr 13, 2009 -- 8:32PM, swinter5 wrote:


He would be ultra-patriotic, loving, next to God, His country and ALL the people in it.




I think it's this line that I find the most unsettling.


It's not just that you said Jesus would be patriotic, which even then I'd be in opposition to the statement; it's that you said Jesus would be ultra-patriotic.


When you read the Gospels, do you honestly read of an "ultra-patriotic" Jesus? Because being a patriot in the Roman Empire didn't involve just respecting the emperor or swearing allegiance to a flag (itself being arguably idolatrous), but swearing allegiance to Caesar. Are you aware of what that entailed? Do you understand the political and religious climate of the time? The very coins minted during the reign of Tiberius proclaimed him the son of a god, reading, "Tiberius Caesar, Son of the Divine Augustus".


Would Jesus be patriotic today? In what country? If Jesus were living in what is today the State of Israel, how do you think He would feel about the Israeli-Palestinian situation? Both sides have killed hundreds, needless death and destruction of equal share, would Jesus support the Israeli government ultra-patriotically?


Or are you thinking if Jesus was living here in the West, in America perhaps. Do you think Jesus would be a "proud American"? What if Jesus had been living in Iraq, how patriotic do you think He would have been under the regime of Sadam? How do you think He'd feel about the war and what it's brought to that land being a resident there? Or a resident here.


Let's take a good, long and hard look at Jesus as the Gospels depict Him. Let's take that ever so terribly seriously and then perhaps, when we begin to contemplate the ramifications of our thinking on this matter, perhaps it will revolutionize us.


What if Jesus had been an Iraqi killed in the bombings and subsequent war?


Because, here's the real kicker, He was.


"Whatever you do to the least of these brothers of Mine, you do it unto Me."


-Jon


 

Flag jumbojava April 14, 2009 9:38 AM EDT

Apr 3, 2009 -- 12:07PM, Beliefnetsue wrote:

If Jesus Were Alive Today...


What kind of man would He be?  Where would He live?  What would He do for work?  What would He have studied in school?  What would He believe about religion?  About politics?  About the state of the world economy?  About the environment?[/qupte]


How would He be an activist?  What would He choose to fight for?  Or against?


And if you went looking for Him, where would you find Him on a Saturday night?


Have fun with this one.    There are of course no right or wrong answers!




Why couldnt he be a woman?  What if she is gay?  Or intersexed? Black? Native American? Hispanic? 

Flag Luella April 15, 2009 12:50 PM EDT

Apr 3, 2009 -- 12:27PM, hamerhas wrote:


  What has given you cause to believe He would be so different?




 


He would still be the son of God and would die for our sins. So it wouldn't matter where he would spend his time.The bible says he will help the lesser of our brethern.

Flag Utilyan April 15, 2009 1:19 PM EDT

You know I bum alot of ciggerettes from Jesus.

Flag mebjk April 15, 2009 1:28 PM EDT

"If Jesus were alive today..."


That is not an "if" for me.  Jesus is alive, I have no doubt.


What are we waiting for?  Live!


mebjk

Flag maverin April 15, 2009 2:04 PM EDT

Apr 3, 2009 -- 12:07PM, Beliefnetsue wrote:


What kind of man would He be?  Where would He live?  What would He do for work?  




There's no 'if' - Christ *is* alive today in the Church, the Church is the 'continuation of the humanity of Jesus Christ', to quote Pope Benedict. When she is striving and receiving the truth, she is receiving the Holy Spirit, and she is that Spirit incarnate. So if you want to find an answer to these questions, perhaps you should look at the Universal Church.


Of course, there were exceptions where people were acting in the Church's name but were not actually of the Church... but in the entire history of the Church the sacraments were offered, people came together in unity, saints and martyrs were born, and many great miracles were performed: in those acts you can clearly see the presence of Jesus today.


- maverin

Flag he-man April 15, 2009 9:35 PM EDT

Apr 13, 2009 -- 8:32PM, swinter5 wrote:

I see Jesus today as a Jewish rabbi, though conservative in his views.  He would be ultra-patriotic, loving, next to God, His country and ALL the people in it.  He would serve a congregation, but I also see him, perhaps, teaching on PBS, enlightening the curious, maybe mainstream, people who would surely like to see the Son of God, and ask Him many questions.  Whether H would reveal Himself as such, would be questionable, though he DID identify Himself to the Twelve in that way. Would we elect Him to public office?  I think the general public would think he was too evangelistic and conservative to be a Congressman or a Senator.  I don't believe He would make a "spectacle" of Himself; just allow people to "read" into Him what they will. It would be soooo neat to meet Him, here, right now, and sit at His feet and just listen to his parables and stories.


Ultra-Patrotic? I hope you haven't had your supper yet! Have you had your SUPPER?  Now if you really aren't a wimp,and want to be a Soldier,  here is how you will do it when you attend the supper of the great God;  Har-Mageddon, 'hill of Megiddo' in the plain of Megiddo, Israel, site of the final battle of the kings of the Earth and their armies against Christ.


And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.  


And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;


That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. Rev 16:16, 19:18,19


But if you are watchful:


Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand;
To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD. Ps 149:6-9


 

Flag Ann4 January 12, 2010 8:30 PM EST

he is coming back  one day and i want to be reddie when he come  but i no that i have dong wrong in my lift and i no that i have to pay for all that i have done so iam asking for help is there any body out there that can help me get back what i once had with god   i need help i dont wont to be lleft down here when he come   yes iam a siner need help

Flag visio January 12, 2010 10:04 PM EST

Oh no!  he won't be coming back.  That interest had long gone off him.   1,400 years ago he was sighted at the 2nd Heaven.   By now he is most likely above the 7th Heaven and dancing, barbequing and honeymooning in the Garden of Eden, with his wife .  That would probably take about another equivalent 48,000 earthly years before he would be readmitted into the Kingdom (the Throne) where he came from, originally.  If and only if he will come back, who knows - he could be among the cattles taht walk on th eearth or monkey/apes that hang on the trees.  So when you eat your meat and vegetables and fruits of the trees, just think about him.  Who is saving whom?

Flag Justme333 January 12, 2010 10:12 PM EST

Jan 12, 2010 -- 8:30PM, Ann4 wrote:


he is coming back  one day and i want to be reddie when he come  but i no that i have dong wrong in my lift and i no that i have to pay for all that i have done so iam asking for help is there any body out there that can help me get back what i once had with god   i need help i dont wont to be lleft down here when he come   yes iam a siner need help




Hi Ann4,


Welcome to Beliefnet and the Discuss Christianity Board.  Have you had a chance to explore some of other forums on the site?  There are a lot that you might enjoy, here is a link to get you started (if you want to) community.beliefnet.com/go/forum/viewboa... .  Any way - again welcome, and I look forward to reading more of your posts.


Justme333
Beliefnet Community Host
Discuss Christianity Board

Flag Ann4 January 12, 2010 10:15 PM EST

               he   is   comeing  back  

Flag teilhard January 13, 2010 6:54 PM EST

Jan 12, 2010 -- 10:15PM, Ann4 wrote:


               he   is   coming  back  




 


"Maranatha ... "

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