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Switch to Forum Live View History Repeats Itself - Genesis 33:1,2
6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2009 - 1:35PM #1
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808
History Repeats Itself - Genesis 33:1,2

When Jacob was returning from Paddan Aram, where he had spent about 20 years working for his uncle Laban, and was approaching Canaan, he was told that his brother Esau was on his way with 400 men to meet him.

Jacob got so desperately anxious for his life and the lives of his family, that he spent the whole night fighting in prayer for a solution about what to do. If we remember, when he had left Canaan, his brother had promised to kill him for having stolen his blessing of the firstborn.

As Jacob looked up and saw his brother from afar off, he decided to divide his family in three groups. The only thing in his mind was that Esau would kill them all in revenge for what had happened 20 years ago.

So, in the first group, Jacob set his maidservants with their children, so that in case they got killed, the others behind could have a chance to escape. In the second group, he set Leah with her children, perhaps to safeguard the lives of Rachel, Joseph and himself, just in case.

Fortunately, for everyone's luck, Esau had changed his mind in the course of those 20 years and nothing drastic happened to anyone. However, everyone with the minimum of commonsense can see that this attitude of Jacob's was everything but fair.

But let's see how different Jesus did to prevent History from repeating itself. The text is in Matthew 26:36-39.

Soon after the Last Supper, as he sensed arrest, he took his disciples and fled to a hiding place in the Gethsemani. At the entrance of the Garden, he left eight of the disciples and told them to watch, and took farther inside the other three disciples: Peter, James and John. Perhaps he thought, if there was a fight, at least the second group would have a chance to escape. In another place farther in, he told the three disciples to stay put and watch, while he would go deeper inside to spend some time
in prayer.

Now, I have been wondering how much of these two cases have in common. One thing we can all be certain of: Both men, Jacob and Jesus were going through the same kind of anxieties in fear for their lives. Bear in mind that the parallel between the facts within the cases is astounding. Would it be appropriate to think of the eight disciples at the entrance of the Garden as the facsimile to the maidservants of Jacob with their children? How about the three disciples in the second group meant to represent Leah with her children? And scary of all, Jesus himself for Jacob with Rachel and Joseph? Luke does say that Jesus was indeed so anxious as to sweat even drops of blood. Anyway but... I don't think either case justifies the measures taken. Both sound too unfair. Any idea out there to set my mind at easy?

Ben
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 08, 2009 - 7:58AM #2
river8101
Posts: 5,548

Many stories in the TaNaKh are repeated in the NT.  After all the authors of the NT were Greeks and they had copies of the TaNaKh in Greek.


In the Jewish story, God redeems Israel from Pharoah by slaying the firstborn of Egypt, thus sparing the Hebrew's firstborn by the substitution of the sacrifice of a lamb.  Moses is saved and later redeems his people Israel by leading them out of Egypt and gives them the law.   In the New Testament Jesus is said to redeem his people through his own death and is therefore called "the lamb" of God connecting it to the Passover story.   This is a twist on the Exodus language.


There is also a story of  Herod slaying all the first born males in Judaea which  is a copy of the Exodus story of the Pharoah slaying all the first born Hebrew males in Egypt.


Then there is also the story of the flight of Jesus' family to escape Herod,  just as Moses fled Egypt with his Hebrew family to escape Pharoah.


 

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 09, 2009 - 5:23AM #3
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808

Mar 8, 2009 -- 7:58AM, river8101 wrote:


Many stories in the TaNaKh are repeated in the NT. After all the authors of the NT were Greeks and they had copies of the TaNaKh in Greek.


In the Jewish story, God redeems Israel from Pharoah by slaying the firstborn of Egypt, thus sparing the Hebrew's firstborn by the substitution of the sacrifice of a lamb. Moses is saved and later redeems his people Israel by leading them out of Egypt and gives them the law. In the New Testament Jesus is said to redeem his people through his own death and is therefore called "the lamb" of God connecting it to the Passover story.   This is a twist on the Exodus language.


There is also a story of Herod slaying all the first born males in Judaea which is a copy of the Exodus story of the Pharoah slaying all the first born Hebrew males in Egypt.


Then there is also the story of the flight of Jesus' family to escape Herod, just as Moses fled Egypt with his Hebrew family to escape Pharoah.


 



My point though was to figure if Jesus was being as malicious as was Jacob. But according to your reply, perhaps the case didn't even happen at all if eveything does not go beyond Christian plagiarism of the Tanach. Isn't it your intention?


Ben

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 09, 2009 - 8:14AM #4
river8101
Posts: 5,548

Certainly not.   Much of the NT is a legend in it's own time, though some of it does do twists and
turns of the Jewish bible, that is in the interpretations.    In the end, it has little to do with the TaNaKh.  I was just referring to the Egyptian stories.   Both the Jewish and Christian bibles have their legends, their allegories and their metaphorical aspects.  Jews do not read the bible literally, as som Christians do.  In any case, much of it was written long after the events took place.


 

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2009 - 1:16AM #5
Ben Masada
Posts: 2,808

Mar 9, 2009 -- 8:14AM, river8101 wrote:


Certainly not. Much of the NT is a legend in it's own time, though some of it does do twists and
turns of the Jewish bible, that is in the interpretations. In the end, it has little to do with the TaNaKh. I was just referring to the Egyptian stories. Both the Jewish and Christian bibles have their legends, their allegories and their metaphorical aspects. Jews do not read the bible literally, as som Christians do.  In any case, much of it was written long after the events took place.


 



Most definitely! No wonder, the writers of the gospels have plagiarized from the Tanach at their hearts content, all kinds of prophecies to fit Jesus in, so that he can be depicted as the one.


Ben

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