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Switch to Forum Live View Why are progressive churches so behind???
5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2009 - 9:56AM #1
Jlaustill
Posts: 12

Hello,


I am a progressive Christian that was born and raised in very fundamentalist churches, mainly baptist churches.  I've made the decision to look for a progressive christian church and I've discovered that they all ALL stuck in the past.  In my town, Billings Montana, there are 5 ELCA, 2 UCC, 2 Presb., and 2 Disciples of Christ churches.  Everyone of them proudly claims to have the best organ player ever, and does hymns so old that I can't even relate to them.


Now I'm a worship leader, have been my whole life.  There is this wonderful world of christian rock/worship music out there.  Why don't these churches embrace that?  As a point, my town is around 120,000 people.  40,000 of those people belong to one of 4 "mega-churches," all of which have rock band led worship, and that is the reason that I hear most often when I ask people WHY they go to those churches, "I like the music..."


This baffles me, I'm to the point where I am ready to start my own church to have a welcoming place to go that also has good music.  Any advice from anyone?

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2009 - 10:37AM #2
natureboy_the0
Posts: 1,740

I think you error in your question "why are progressive churches so far behind". 


Church means "the called out from, [usually, the world]" and they are always progressing.  The fellowshipping groups who call themselves "progressive churches" are like most who call themselves Christians, they are a users of a title which has nothing to do with who they really are. Matthew 13:52 [Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old] shows us that progressive church are constantly changing, bringing with the old concepts new invigerating ones.  What few comprehend is church and salvation is a continual process, to remain relatively the same is not being called out of the world who want nothing to ever change and believe perfection is a state which never changes.


When man become "born again", scripture say we are new creations.  Nature shows us how we who are "born again" are new creations with the metamorphosis.  A Butterflly lays an egg which hatches into a catapeller who weaves a cocoon around itself and emerges a butterfly.  The creation of the egg, the catapeller, was "born again" into a butterfly which continued to progress until discarnating. 


Nature also shows us "everlasting life" with the evergreen trees.  They maintain their body of leaves through the full four seasoned cycle of the year, year after year and growing in size each year.  We who are born again has to be growing in our understnding of life or we are not born again, we are the "living dead"  (Matthew 8:22). 


So, a progressive church is a church growing in interpretation of scriptures and life, not a group whocall themselves by that title.

Are you questioning your beliefs, ask I AM THAT I AM to clarify them!
Elijah Alfred "NatureBoy" Alexander, Jr. presenting SEEDS OF LIFE
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2009 - 12:12PM #3
Jlaustill
Posts: 12

Mar 2, 2009 -- 10:37AM, natureboy_the0 wrote:


I think you error in your question "why are progressive churches so far behind". 


Church means "the called out from, [usually, the world]" and they are always progressing.  The fellowshipping groups who call themselves "progressive churches" are like most who call themselves Christians, they are a users of a title which has nothing to do with who they really are. Matthew 13:52 [Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old] shows us that progressive church are constantly changing, bringing with the old concepts new invigerating ones.  What few comprehend is church and salvation is a continual process, to remain relatively the same is not being called out of the world who want nothing to ever change and believe perfection is a state which never changes.


When man become "born again", scripture say we are new creations.  Nature shows us how we who are "born again" are new creations with the metamorphosis.  A Butterflly lays an egg which hatches into a catapeller who weaves a cocoon around itself and emerges a butterfly.  The creation of the egg, the catapeller, was "born again" into a butterfly which continued to progress until discarnating. 


Nature also shows us "everlasting life" with the evergreen trees.  They maintain their body of leaves through the full four seasoned cycle of the year, year after year and growing in size each year.  We who are born again has to be growing in our understnding of life or we are not born again, we are the "living dead"  (Matthew 8:22). 


So, a progressive church is a church growing in interpretation of scriptures and life, not a group whocall themselves by that title.




 


The ENTIRE point of my post was about music, not what it means to be a Progressive Christian.  My point was simply that all the Christian churches in my town that claim to embrace change still cling to the music of the past.  Whether they embrace changes in anything else I'm not concerned with at this point.  I need a church that is EXCITING, one which puts a person in the mood to praise God and be thankful.  When I go to a church that has corporate responses/chanting and people singing from 200 year old hymns painfully, thankfullness and praise are NOT the emotions that environment brings up for me.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2009 - 12:25PM #4
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

Do you know the difference between a "Praise Hymn" and an Uzi?


 


The Uzi only repeats 20 times.


 


Yes, I am  an older "progressive" Christian.  Why get hung up in what MUSIC a congregation plays?  I'm more interested in their theology and their social Gospel activities.  Modern music does not make one "progressive." 


With all due respect, I think you're hung up on the wrong thing.  BUT, if such music is important to you, why not join one of those congregations, work with them, become part of them, and introduce them to it?

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2009 - 12:27PM #5
natureboy_the0
Posts: 1,740

Mar 2, 2009 -- 12:12PM, Jlaustill wrote:


Mar 2, 2009 -- 10:37AM, natureboy_the0 wrote:


I think you error in your question "why are progressive churches so far behind". 


Church means "the called out from, [usually, the world]" and they are always progressing.  The fellowshipping groups who call themselves "progressive churches" are like most who call themselves Christians, they are a users of a title which has nothing to do with who they really are. Matthew 13:52 [Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old] shows us that progressive church are constantly changing, bringing with the old concepts new invigerating ones.  What few comprehend is church and salvation is a continual process, to remain relatively the same is not being called out of the world who want nothing to ever change and believe perfection is a state which never changes.


When man become "born again", scripture say we are new creations.  Nature shows us how we who are "born again" are new creations with the metamorphosis.  A Butterflly lays an egg which hatches into a catapeller who weaves a cocoon around itself and emerges a butterfly.  The creation of the egg, the catapeller, was "born again" into a butterfly which continued to progress until discarnating. 


Nature also shows us "everlasting life" with the evergreen trees.  They maintain their body of leaves through the full four seasoned cycle of the year, year after year and growing in size each year.  We who are born again has to be growing in our understnding of life or we are not born again, we are the "living dead"  (Matthew 8:22). 


So, a progressive church is a church growing in interpretation of scriptures and life, not a group whocall themselves by that title.




 


The ENTIRE point of my post was about music, not what it means to be a Progressive Christian.  My point was simply that all the Christian churches in my town that claim to embrace change still cling to the music of the past.  Whether they embrace changes in anything else I'm not concerned with at this point.  I need a church that is EXCITING, one which puts a person in the mood to praise God and be thankful.  When I go to a church that has corporate responses/chanting and people singing from 200 year old hymns painfully, thankfullness and praise are NOT the emotions that environment brings up for me.



Forgive me, Please, I did not realize you were only concerned about music.

Are you questioning your beliefs, ask I AM THAT I AM to clarify them!
Elijah Alfred "NatureBoy" Alexander, Jr. presenting SEEDS OF LIFE
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2009 - 2:36PM #6
Jlaustill
Posts: 12

 



Forgive me, Please, I did not realize you were only concerned about music.




No forgiveness needed :).  I just feel very strongly about this, if I come off as abrasive, it's not my intention one bit.


 


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2009 - 2:47PM #7
Jlaustill
Posts: 12

Mar 2, 2009 -- 12:25PM, Christianlib wrote:


Do you know the difference between a "Praise Hymn" and an Uzi?


 


The Uzi only repeats 20 times.


 


Yes, I am  an older "progressive" Christian.  Why get hung up in what MUSIC a congregation plays?  I'm more interested in their theology and their social Gospel activities.  Modern music does not make one "progressive." 


With all due respect, I think you're hung up on the wrong thing.  BUT, if such music is important to you, why not join one of those congregations, work with them, become part of them, and introduce them to it?




 


I get "hung up" on music for many many reasons.  Most importantly, because scripture demands it.  More familiarily because music is the reason that MOST people pick a church.  I'm not saying that modern music makes one progressive, but I am saying that it is part of the picture.  Jesus very simply said to get the word out, tell everyone.  The FACT is that progressives are failing at that from what I see, and I believe in VERY large part, at least in my town, to things as simple as music.  In order to tell people about Jesus you have to first get their attention.  Simple questions to ponder, does God's word demand we praise him with music because God enjoys music?  Or does God's word demand we praise him with music because God and the people he inspired to right scripture knew the power of music?  I've meditated on that question while reading the Bible in it's entirety and didn't come up with an answer from scripture.


Your question about why don't I join one of those and help them is a great question.  I have had meetings and email's with every pastor of everyone of these churches in my town, and every single one of them has told me they have no place for modern worship music in their churches.  Now mind you, I'm NOT saying hymns are bad, and I wouldn't take anyones liturgical traditions away from them.  What I don't understand is why these chuches are so "hung up" on not moving into the modern musical erra and doing everything in their power to get a chance to preach the news of Jesus to more people with at least a part of their church.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2009 - 3:11PM #8
tawonda
Posts: 4,367

I'd be highly curious to see the exact data you're citing as evidence that most people base their selection of churches on music. Frankly, I doubt that very much.


I'd also point out that entertainment is not a goal of worship, nor is "It has a beat and you can dance to it" a criterion of worship quality.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2009 - 3:38PM #9
Jlaustill
Posts: 12

Mar 2, 2009 -- 3:11PM, tawonda wrote:


I'd be highly curious to see the exact data you're citing as evidence that most people base their selection of churches on music. Frankly, I doubt that very much.


I'd also point out that entertainment is not a goal of worship, nor is "It has a beat and you can dance to it" a criterion of worship quality.




The exact data is the simple fact that every mega-church I've ever seen has modern worship music.  On top of that, I ask a TON of people why they go to these churches, and most of the time they say I like the music.  I'm not sighting empiracal evidence, just personal observations.  You doubt it very much, and that's fine, but I see it as a very real truth.


Secondly, I never said ANYTHING about entertainment.  If that is what you got out of my words, then I misworded grossly.  Ironically, I'm getting the same responses in this forum that I have locally.  This tells me that the people who consider themselves progressive and open to knew ideas really are missing the boat.  From wikipedia,


"Progressive Christianity is the name given to a movement within contemporary Protestant Christianity characterized by willingness to question tradition," yet all I see in this topic is people fighting for the same old musical tradition.  One that, at least is my town, is failing.


I started this thread to attempt to gain new insight into this reasoning.  So I would pose a question, how would you define worship?

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2009 - 4:51PM #10
NothingButLove
Posts: 715

Mar 2, 2009 -- 3:38PM, Jlaustill wrote:


The exact data is the simple fact that every mega-church I've ever seen has modern worship music.  On top of that, I ask a TON of people why they go to these churches, and most of the time they say I like the music.  I'm not sighting empiracal evidence, just personal observations.  You doubt it very much, and that's fine, but I see it as a very real truth.


Secondly, I never said ANYTHING about entertainment.  If that is what you got out of my words, then I misworded grossly.  Ironically, I'm getting the same responses in this forum that I have locally.  This tells me that the people who consider themselves progressive and open to knew ideas really are missing the boat.




Actually I can see your point. Many people would feel they "ought to" go to church, but will go where the end result is that they "feel best". The music no doubt assists in this feel good process, and I see no problem with that. I have never attended one of these mega church services, but from documentaries I have seen, it certainly seemed a highly emotive affair. And I can see that being very attractive.


I chose BA over Qantas for a 22 hour flight, because the breakfast served at the end of the flight was better. Both airlines were going to get me to London, so why not get a better breakfast? I can see lots of folks thinking the same about church.

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