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Switch to Forum Live View Is Christianity determined valid or invalid upon the character of its adherents?
6 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2009 - 4:02PM #1
Steve1939
Posts: 825
In other words, if Christians do not act a “good” way, then is Christianity itself is invalidated?.

So many times I hear people say why they are not Christians or why they think Christianity is false. They will refer a Christian who did this or that. They will look to the character of Christians and judge, based on this character, whether Christianity is true. Or look at all the actions of the church in history and based on that judge, whether Christianity is true

But is that the most optimum way of ascertain the validity of Christianity?

Many people refer to this passage in support of such a view:

John 13:34-35 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

But the passage does not suppose the truthfulness of Christianity is dependent on our character. It does, however, suppose the truthfulness of an individual’s Christian faith is dependent on their character. If we don’t love one another, it does not make Christianity any less true. It only makes our profession to be Christian less true. It is an indicator as to whether or not an individual’s faith is valid or not.

Likewise, if we do love one another and do other “good” acts, Christianity is no truer than before.

God however did not make the validation of his message the character witness of sinners.

Christianity is based solely on the person and work of Christ. 


Christianity is true if Christ rose from the dead. If he did not, it is false. That is it.

It does not matter how Christians respond to current political, economic, or ethical issues. It does not depend on whether a Christian is nice to his neighbor. It does not depend on whether all Christians are unified or divided.
It does not even depend on a Christian’s perseverance in the faith. Its truthfulness is solely a matter of history. Is Christ who he said he was?

Paul tells the Corinthians,”If Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain” (1 Cor. 15:14).

Notice he did not say “If you Corinthians don’t promote peace and justice and be nice to one another, then our faith is in vain.”

Christianity is not validated upon the character of its adherents

It’s about what Christ did, not what Christians do. It is about the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 11:04AM #2
theprinterlady
Posts: 1,812
I can only speak for myself...

If I were to depend on ONLY the lives of the Christians I know personally as a reason to be a Christian... I'd probably still be one. MOST of the Christians I know are good people who do their very best to live up to the standards of Christianity. I also know the difference between the people who claim to be Christians merely because they aren't any other faith so they default to Christinanity, and those who truly believe, and the scale present between the two.

Even though I have chosen to leave Christianity (because I cannot believe what it wants me to believe), I don't think it's "invalid". It's "invalid" for me because I cannot in good faith "believe" that which I don't truly "believe". I found another faith whose tenets I agree with and which doesn't require said "belief" from me. Does that mean I think everyone has to agree? No. Nor does it mean that I think Christianity is "wrong"? No. To me, Christianity presents ONE WAY to view G-d, and if viewing G-d through that lens causes you to be a better person, then it's done it's job.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 11:14AM #3
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799
Whether it's fair or not, the old saying rings true; "You may be the only gospel some people read." That's just the reality on the ground.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2009 - 3:20PM #4
kwd111
Posts: 1,104

theprinterlady wrote:

I can only speak for myself...

If I were to depend on ONLY the lives of the Christians I know personally as a reason to be a Christian... I'd probably still be one. MOST of the Christians I know are good people who do their very best to live up to the standards of Christianity. I also know the difference between the people who claim to be Christians merely because they aren't any other faith so they default to Christinanity, and those who truly believe, and the scale present between the two.

Even though I have chosen to leave Christianity (because I cannot believe what it wants me to believe), I don't think it's "invalid". It's "invalid" for me because I cannot in good faith "believe" that which I don't truly "believe". I found another faith whose tenets I agree with and which doesn't require said "belief" from me. Does that mean I think everyone has to agree? No. Nor does it mean that I think Christianity is "wrong"? No. To me, Christianity presents ONE WAY to view G-d, and if viewing G-d through that lens causes you to be a better person, then it's done it's job.


this is very interesting TPL.  You are a little more understandable now.

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2009 - 1:06AM #5
theprinterlady
Posts: 1,812
Well for goodness sake, don't spread the word!!! I'm trying very hard to be inscrutable over here...

:)

TPL
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2009 - 12:15PM #6
warlordofks
Posts: 3,646
Speaking as a ex-Christian. I spent the first 55 years of my life being Christian. If the majority of what you've experience as & from other Christians is toxic. That is a good indicator that Christianity isn't any more valid & true than any other religion.

go ahead & hate your neighbor
go ahead & cheat a friend
do it in the name of Jesus
you can justify it in the end
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2009 - 1:09PM #7
kwd111
Posts: 1,104

warlordofks wrote:

Speaking as a ex-Christian. I spent the first 55 years of my life being Christian. If the majority of what you've experience as & from other Christians is toxic. That is a good indicator that Christianity isn't any more valid & true than any other religion.

go ahead & hate your neighbor
go ahead & cheat a friend
do it in the name of Jesus
you can justify it in the end


:)  Or maybe you can follow Jesus Christ instead of following other Christians.  As one person said "If you are drawn to a person, the closer you get the more they stink.  But if you are drawn to Jesus Christ, the close you get the sweeter He smells!"

I stopped following people along time ago... it is a great way to stop the Adam syndrome of blaming someone else for what one does and believes

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2009 - 11:05PM #8
LeahOne
Posts: 16,476
...at least for the part about how she views Christianity   :  ))
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 19, 2009 - 4:29PM #9
warlordofks
Posts: 3,646

kwd111 wrote:

:)  Or maybe you can follow Jesus Christ instead of following other Christians.  As one person said "If you are drawn to a person, the closer you get the more they stink.  But if you are drawn to Jesus Christ, the close you get the sweeter He smells!"

I stopped following people along time ago... it is a great way to stop the Adam syndrome of blaming someone else for what one does and believes


Why follow a mythological God/Man. And name me one religion that has always used the sword to convert ever since the 4th century. That has used force against other people, against their culture, their traditions, their religion. Forcing people to convert at the point of the sword. That is how you spread the Love you proclaim your religion was about. And you can't deny that that is how Christianity has spread itself for 1700 years.

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2009 - 9:41PM #10
Omarkhayyam
Posts: 4,224
The problems with the Christian myth are a lot deeper and more serious than the foibles of some of its adherents.

As noted above and here.
This is OZ? I want back to KS.

What was it? Click your heels together 3 times and say - what??
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